war saddle

[Mac]

D'oh! Excuse me....I mean "Thanks Jenn!"

Mac

[Mac]

I'm thinking about starting another thread to discuss the Henry V saddle. Should I do that here, or would Design and Constructive be more appropriator?

Mac

[Wouter Nicolai]

I was thinking the same thing, I now have quite a lot of thoughts about this saddle, and raised seats, saddle pannel in general. For my part would also be interesting to hear more opinions about where to place this saddle in the evolution of medieval saddles. I am hesitant to use this thread for discussion because it is about your replica

[Mac]

I have started another thread over on Design and Construction to discuss the Henry V and related saddles. http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... p?t=131134

Mac

[Rittmeister Frye]

Thanks for those photo's of the original Henry V saddle! That saddle would actually fit a pretty broad-backed horse! Amazing since most original saddles that I've seen (up to around 1920 or so) are made for very, very narrow horses. Some modern horses are still pretty narrow, but not the big boys we tend to ride for jousting and what not!

Interestingly I recall that all of the older material concerning this saddle claims that it "must be a funerary saddle", as it "couldn't possibly hold a person in it, due to the rod across the top". Looks as though more modern research as bashed that idea into the dustbin! Excellent!

Cheers!

Gordon

[Peter Lyon]

Mac directed me to this thread to add anything I can. It will take me a while to do a thorough reply to all the questions, and unfortunately I don't have spare time at the moment due to work commitments (it really is work/eat/sleep, rinse and repeat for the next several weeks), but I will when I have time. I researched the saddle and everything around it thoroughly, inlcluding learning a lot about the likely maker, reference works to its history, and got the info into one document which I am happy to send to anyone who just wants to email me about it - the joys of being a borderline obsessive! I also drew up full plans of the saddle and all its details, then got to see the actual saddle a couple of years later(though still behind glass), which of course made me change a few things once I could properly measure it.

The gist of it is, this is a real saddle, either made new for the funeral procession of Henry V or modified from an old saddle for the one-off use (Henry V himself almost certainly never rode in this saddle) before being donated to Westminster Abbey along with other bits of the funerary achievements (as was the practise at the time). It also hung in the open for almost 5 centuries about Henry's chantry chapel so is a lot worse for wear, though it did have bits of its original covering still attached when it was finally taken down, so it has accumulated a fair bit of wear and tear.

Worth noting is that this is a unique survivor of its type, the only other complete saddle of this raised-seat type is in the Armouria Real in Madrid, but it was baddly damaged in a fire about a century ago; but there are other examples in art (painting, illumination and sculture) showing it was a common type of saddle in the 14th century, but being superceded from the start of the 15th century by lower saddles, more like the surviving parade saddles covered with bone etc.

[Duane W]

I was lucky enough to try this saddle when it was "au natural", that is with the tree uncovered. The only problem I had is that the tree was too narrow for my thoroughbred's withers. (He usually fits a modern medium width tree. This tree was definitely narrow.)

The major difference between this saddle and most modern saddles is that it is designed to be a fighting platform not a cruise director's chair. To this end a major difference is the size of the saddle bars. They are long and more importantly wider (deeper?) than saddles built on a modern tree. This gives the rider exceptional lateral stability. (This allows you to "reach" and lean from side-to-side without the saddle slipping and rotating around the horse's torso. An important feature when you consider the CG shift of an armoured rider and the fact your opponent won't willing come in to close range for your striking convenience.) The size of the bars also helps distribute the weight of the rider on the horse's back more effectively, but I don't think that was a major consideration at the time.

Some folks may be concerned about the wedge shaped seat. I assure you it was comfortable and it shape forced you to keep your CG lower while keeping your legs extended and braced against the horse. Just what you'd want in a period war saddle.

The pommel has a special OMG the s**t just hit the fan grip built in to it and that is a nice feature. The cantle is tall enough to secure your seat without impeding your leg when you mount.

I do have pictures of the tree before it was covered. If Mac wants me to, I will post them when I get home later today.


Take care,

Duane

[Mac]

Thanks Duane. If you want to post pics of the naked saddle, please do.

Mac

[Duane W]

Just found the pics. I will post them tomorrow.

Take care,

Duane

[Duane W]

Here they are gang. Sorry about the poor lighting/background.











Take care,

Duane

[Mac]

Thanks Duane.

These pics show the tree pretty well.

I had forgotten that I had removed the stirrup mounting brackets by the time I gave you the tree to try. They were going to go on Toby C's saddle, but we decided not to do it in the end. The brackets were back on the tree when I finished it up for the Higgins.

I no longer hold with my reconstruction of the seat. I had theorized a lost wooden member to make the iron seat rod more comfortable. It is visible in the bottom view. Since then, Jeff Wasson has built a Henry V saddle using just the iron rod and padding for the seat. http://www.wassonartistry.com/show.php?id=jousting It worked for him, so my crazy idea is clearly unnecessary.

Mac