What does it take to compete at the top levels of SCA Heavy?

[BdeB]

Well said, Sir Knight.

I think this is a good topic and I was hoping to hear from more of the top guys speak of their journey. I am not at the top so I can’t tell a person how to get somewhere I have never been, but I do know this you can ALWAYS find a really good reason not to practice or do pell work… or not to train like you know you should.

I believe the problem isn’t money or anything else. I think the problem is being honest with oneself. We need to be completely honest and ask if we REALLY want to be a top guy? If you are not sure if you are being honest then look at your lifestyle and actions, your training that will let you know.

William Thomas

[pallidus]

To get "good" at any martial art is all about training volume, and training quality.

Volume, volume, volume.

Ask any Duke - particularly if has just became a duke- how much practice he gets. I bet its more than 2x per week! Many Dukes in the West drive to 3+ practices per week, for many months before a crown. If they are better than you, they probably train more than you.

They are the first one on the training field and the last one to leave.
They fight EVERY fighter at practice.
They choose the toughest opponents to fight the most.

[AndreasMorgan]

Lots of good input here in general. To be more specific to Cailin(cause we know each other well) I would say this...

My friend you are well on your way. I think you have already overcome your biggest obstacle by moving away from the ass end of three kingdoms and into the heart of AE. You are now in an area full of top end fighters to pester. Now that you seem ready to settle in one place I believe you will easily slip into a groove and advance quite rapidly.

As far as being a top end tourney fighter you are probably in better shape than anyone out there. Seriously. You also have a wide range of fighting knowledge and skills. Now you just gotta put in the time.

Physically you are ready but you also are the epitome of the "nice guy", at least on the practice field. Much of what goes on in the tourney list is a head game and you will figure that out once you start competing regularly. You need to develop the mindset of having won before you ever set foot in the list. As has been said previously it is good to be the nice guy before and after the fight but when they call "lay on" that is when you let out your inner Mike Tyson(sans ear biting). I like to use Mohammed Ali as an example of attitude too. The man was a sweetheart out of the ring but he also knew how to get in peoples heads prior to a fight " Oh I'm a BAD MAN!!!!" Watch his old press conferences. Most of his fights were won long before he stepped thru the ropes.

Also don't be afraid to take risks and challenge yourself. IE Me at crown two years ago when we unbelts had to challenge up for the first round. I could've picked a knight that I knew I could beat but no I wanted the best out there and I challenged Malcolm. People still question me about that LOL. The point here is that being an experienced tourney fighter, I knew that if I could walk away from that fight with a win that would be awesome. However, should I lose then it's no big deal cause I fought the baddest dude out there when nobody else would and earned alot of respect(as was noted by His Grace!) plus I know my own self and I perform better when I have to fight out of a loser bracket. So for me that was a win/win situation. Ultimately I accomplished what I set out to do as an unknown unbelt....turn heads. I get a big kick out of " OMG who the hell is that guy".

Conversely this fall crown is different. This one is mine. The look on some squires' faces after they told me their knights were really pushing for fall crown and I told them that was great but that I was sorry that they will have to try again maybe next year...Priceless. "Its gonna be a thrillah, and a chillah, and a killah when I smack your Duke in the Grillah"- no disrespect intended.

Cheers,
Andreas

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Quality is far more important than volume.

To paraphrase B. Lee -

Don't worry about the guy who practices 100 blows, but throws them poorly.
Worry about the guy who can throw 1 blow perfect, every time.

Practicing crap 3 times a week isn't nearly as benefical as practicing 1 time a week properly.

To get "good" at any martial art is all about training volume, and training quality.

Volume, volume, volume.

Ask any Duke - particularly if has just became a duke- how much practice he gets. I bet its more than 2x per week! Many Dukes in the West drive to 3+ practices per week, for many months before a crown. If they are better than you, they probably train more than you.

They are the first one on the training field and the last one to leave.
They fight EVERY fighter at practice.
They choose the toughest opponents to fight the most.

[raito]

Quality is far more important than volume.

To paraphrase B. Lee -

Don't worry about the guy who practices 100 blows, but throws them poorly.
Worry about the guy who can throw 1 blow perfect, every time.

Or to put it another way, you can practice one blow a thousand times, or a thousand blows once each.

While quantity does have a quality of its own, there's no substitute for quality itself.

Put another way, I've watched an awful lot of Crowns. And usually, the blows that win are simple, straight head shots, leg shots, and the occasional offiside or thrust. Crown winners aren't throwing some huge bag of techniques out there. They're winning by having the basics of hitting with a stick absolutely down cold, then working on non-hitting techniques (footwork, etc.) so that they make the opportunity to use what tehcniques they have. Sure, the uber Duke knows how to throw a million different blows, or so it seems. But to most of them, it's just variations on the basics.

I know that in the Royal Lists I've won, I've never bothered to break out any of the funky stuff.

[pallidus]

Of course you won't win anything by fighting newbies 3 times per week! But you think you could win a crown by practicing once a week? Go ask your king or local dukes if that's how they did it. Seriously. Also, read the rest of the post.
"They choose the toughest opponents to fight the most." That's where the "quality" comes from.

[Whitewolf Sr.]

1 shot Mastered is worth 10 learned......but damn well remember the 10 learned !
Absolutely understand the basics....and use them consistantly in your "Dedicated Training"!
Your Pell is your Pal........abuse it!
Remember that You're not "Sneaking Up" on anybody......So bring Your "Best" at all times!
Find a group of loosely knit, like minded "Stick Jock" Enthusiasts..........Become the first among Equals!
Feel free to "challenge" Sir Uberduke...most will accommodate.....Be Aware that His Grace Will Demand Your "A" Game...........He probably already has a "Pell" at home.
There is a Vast difference between loseing and being "Beaten".
Learn to Lose with dignity and win with Grace......Unto thine own self be true and "Know Thy Betters" learn much from them and then "Know Thy Peers".
Wax On, Wax Off!..................................................................


Sr.

[Maeryk]

Bawls.

[Whitewolf Sr.]

"Get A well developed Sense of Humor about the whole thing"...............It should be Paramount in your mind set! (Or perhaps the Movie Co. of your choice)

BTW "Beating on your Pell" in full Harness is "Working Out" !

Sr.

[Whitewolf Sr.]

"Become a Legand in your Own Mind".........learn quickly too, that your theory will assuredly be Challenged and found wanting!

Leave any "Politics" at home.....Find the "Top Stick" in your village and learn from them.......when given the opportunity to contest with "Greater than These" Avail yourself to it....Be Polite!

Add some "Polish" to your Game (take that anyway you want).......Look Good, Do Good!

Practice with a purpose, then practice some more!

Sr.

[Saritor]

Add some "Polish" to your Game

Indeed! Look what it did for Eduard Gostomski!

[Blaine de Navarre]

Good insurance and a job with lots of vacation time don't hurt, either.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Actually, I know at least two in the Midrealm who did just that.... Comar and Edmund. I also beleive Finn.

Of course you won't win anything by fighting newbies 3 times per week! But you think you could win a crown by practicing once a week? Go ask your king or local dukes if that's how they did it. Seriously. Also, read the rest of the post.
"They choose the toughest opponents to fight the most." That's where the "quality" comes from.

[Kilkenny]

I think that probably the most important thing for getting to be a top competitor in this game is that you love it to the point of obsession, or very nearly.

When you feel that way, you get more fighting than the guy who doesn't, you think about fighting more than the guy who doesn't (and it's amazing how important thinking about it is), you put more into training and practicing than the guy who doesn't...all while having fun and feeling good about it.

[St. George]

+1

Gavin has it right.

And you can do well fighting lower fighters, you just have to be more disciplined about your practice methodology.

g-

[Whitewolf Sr.]

Become more than just passing familiar with all of the weapons in "SCA Heavy"....Practice with them all if possible .
Dedicate to the one you are most comfortable with and Master that form..... To become First Among Equals dedicated practice seems to be the "rule of the Day"...........

Sr.

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

Quality is far more important than volume.

To paraphrase B. Lee -

Don't worry about the guy who practices 100 blows, but throws them poorly.
Worry about the guy who can throw 1 blow perfect, every time.

Or to put it another way, you can practice one blow a thousand times, or a thousand blows once each.

While quantity does have a quality of its own, there's no substitute for quality itself.

Put another way, I've watched an awful lot of Crowns. And usually, the blows that win are simple, straight head shots, leg shots, and the occasional offiside or thrust. Crown winners aren't throwing some huge bag of techniques out there. They're winning by having the basics of hitting with a stick absolutely down cold, then working on non-hitting techniques (footwork, etc.) so that they make the opportunity to use what tehcniques they have. Sure, the uber Duke knows how to throw a million different blows, or so it seems. But to most of them, it's just variations on the basics.

I know that in the Royal Lists I've won, I've never bothered to break out any of the funky stuff.

This.

I may not be one of the top in the SCA but I'm not too bad.

regards
ThorvaldR

[Whitewolf Sr.]

There is something to be said about "The Warrior Ethos" that drives a top tier Fighter...Either you got it or you don't, in that, there are no shades of grey. As the difference betwixt "The Rider" and "The Horseman"...when the rider falls, he blames the Horse...when the Horseman falls...he blames Himself. The "Top Tier" fighter should look at what WE do through those eyes. Be consistant in your journey my friend..."The Field of Honor" is not for the faint hearted or the weak minded. Win with Grace & Lose with Dignity. You asked, "What does it take to compete at the top levels of SCA Heavy"? Sweat and Determination.......... "Pain builds Character"........Semper Fidelis!

"Keep IT Pure"


I remain,

Count Sir Johnathan Crusadene, Lord Whitewolf The Elder, KSCA, OL, OP (KSCA 1973) Etc.

[maxntropy]

Actually, I know at least two in the Midrealm who did just that.... Comar and Edmund.

I happen to know for a fact (having been there) that a young Edmund sought out practice and training from tough competitors as much as he could and drove quite far for such.

Max Von Halstern

[SirOlafr]

Mostly said already I think, but wanted to reinforce my opinion on it.

1.) Plain loving to fight helps the most because it motivates you to do the rest; and well, shouldn't we spend what recreation time we may have doing what we love?

2.) Fight the best fighters you can find. Fight them all the time. Ask questions and ask for feedback. If you can find out about some upper end practice, try to get invited. If you don't get noticed, keep fighting the people that do, until you do.

3.) Number two likely means you must TRAVEL.

4.) Don't get discouraged, fighting the best fighters you can fight all the time means you will likely get your butt handed to you a lot. Suck it up buttercup and get better.

5.) Average conditioning will get you through pretty well in most instances. Average conditioning is not 'Playstation' conditioning. If you can spend three hours gaming, you can spend half an hour riding a stationary bike a couple of times a week. You don't have to be trim per say, but the muscle endurance and aerobic endurance needs to be there to some degree. This becomes more important at higher levels I think and is easier to do the more you just fight.

6.) Get squired to a knight or Master. If chivalry isn't right for you, find a great fighter and leader and try to get in with them. Find the right person for you. If you can find someone that will be willing to give you lots of individual time and help you directly along the way you'll be that much better off.

7.) Have the right mentality. Be determined. Win fights before you fight them. Be a nice guy if you want, but be a killer in the list.

8.) If you are married or in a committed relationship, have a supportive significant other. My wife has supported my efforts to become the best fighter I can be, and continues to do so now that we have a beautiful 2 year old daughter. Remember the priority that is your family.

9.) See 1.

In the spring of 2006 I became a man at arms to Count Robin Wallace. I had been in the SCA as an authorized fighter for 7 years and had been to Pennsic 5 times. I had no fighting awards and was pretty unknown. Up until that point I was a sporadic fighter and participant at best and I had been at a crossroads in the SCA. I was going to dive in, or I was going out. I dove in.

This Pennsic I will have been a knight for two years. In the time that I was a man at arms, and later a squire, I practiced twice a week on average and attended approximately a dozen fighting events a year. With Count Robin, I had the benefit of fighting someone I believe is probably the best fighter in the Kingdom. For three years he came to practices twice a week to work with me. That helped me tremendously and I can not thank him enough for that. Routine weekly practices with the late Duke Morguhn Sheridan didn't hurt either.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Yup - at events.

Now, traveling around and getting experience against various styles and opponents of high skill is definately another aspect.

Actually, I know at least two in the Midrealm who did just that.... Comar and Edmund.

I happen to know for a fact (having been there) that a young Edmund sought out practice and training from tough competitors as much as he could and drove quite far for such.

Max Von Halstern

[maxntropy]

Yup - at events.

Actually, at practices. As is wise for those seeking to broaden and deepen their skillset, Edmund would travel extremely far to get to practices where he could find different skills and training than available locally.

Max VH

[calgofo]

Good thread with a lot of excellent advice especially from those who have done it. Been around this silly game for 35 years and in all of those years one thing I've never heard a legend say is "Well, I sat around on my ass, took it seriously when I felt like it and fucked off the rest of the time. Couldn't do it because I was poor. Couldn't do it because of my work schedule. Couldn't do it because my spouse hated the SCA. Good fighters were too far away for me to train with, etc.etc.etc."

I am NOT suggesting that ALL of the above are not valid excuses. They are. They just don't come out of the peoples mouth that have attained the highest levels. They got there because they busted their ass and made up there minds, with singular focus (obsession if you will), that being at the level was the most all encompassing thing in their lives while they were doing it.

They do what is necessary (whatever it is) to win. You have to want it bad enough and eat untold buckets of shit to make it. If you're a natural, then your road is easier but you still have to WANT it. I have seen many hot stick jocks fold at the finish. You can be a tortoise or a hare.

You have to have the mentality.

Using the local area as an example, the two biggest legends in this area (arguably....maybe not) are Duke Inman and Duke Sigmund. I have had in depth discussions with both over many years about the mindset. Inman refers to the eye of the tiger, Sigmund calls it the glaze mode. Same thing. I can guarantee you if they had to swim oceans, walk through mine fields, machine gunfire, whatever, they would have done it. True they were both naturals, the hares. Inman was so smooth and sleek he would have made a cat weep with his reflexes. Sigmund had hand speed that was mind boggling. The take away though, is it wouldn't have mattered if they hadn't had those skills. They would have won anyway.

Duchess Rowan, the only female to win a crown in her own right (so far) was a tortoise. She couldn't even hold a sword well much less win a bout when she started but she would not be denied. She came with limited skills but she was willing to fight Duke Sigmund, Duke Hector, Duke Patrick, Duke Richard, Duke Jason, etc. in the same back yard, day after day, week after week, month after month and year after her year.

So just make up your mind and don't be denied IF that's what you truly WANT.

Just beware of what YOU might have to give up to get what you want.

[herrhauptmann]

Duchess Rowan, the only female to win a crown in her own right (so far) was a tortoise. She couldn't even hold a sword well much less win a bout when she started but she would not be denied. She came with limited skills but she was willing to fight Duke Sigmund, Duke Hector, Duke Patrick, Duke Richard, Duke Jason, etc. in the same back yard, day after day, week after week, month after month and year after her year.

I'd like to hear more of this Duchess Rowan.
From what I'd been told, we've not yet had a woman win any crown tourneys, despite numerous women getting close.

[Whitewolf Sr.]

Queen Rowan III....24th Crown of Ansteorra....1/26/91

HrG Duchess Rowan Beatrice von Kampfer......

historian.ansteorra.org./index ........... ....pictures and everything.




Sr.

[Kilkenny]

Duchess Rowan, the only female to win a crown in her own right (so far) was a tortoise. She couldn't even hold a sword well much less win a bout when she started but she would not be denied. She came with limited skills but she was willing to fight Duke Sigmund, Duke Hector, Duke Patrick, Duke Richard, Duke Jason, etc. in the same back yard, day after day, week after week, month after month and year after her year.

I'd like to hear more of this Duchess Rowan.
From what I'd been told, we've not yet had a woman win any crown tourneys, despite numerous women getting close.

To the best of my recollection, One Queen (of Ansteorra) by right of arms, one Princess of Drachenwald by right of arms, one Princess of the Mists by right of arms.

That may no longer be current, but I doubt the list is much longer, if at all.

[Blaine de Navarre]

There have been a few more Princesses in their own right (not sure exact number) since the 2 Gavin mentioned; 2 women that I know of have been to Crown finals and a handful to the final 4.

[Sigifrith Hauknefr]

Two Princess' of the Mists b.r.o.a. Sir Maythen (AS XVI) and Sir Bryne (AS XXXVII). Sir Mari was runner-up in Cynaguan Coronet last year.

[SirCathal]

I believe the story goes that Duchess Rowan cup shotted her husband Duke Hector to win the day and become queen by right of arms.

[Whitewolf Sr.]

There are quite a few "BadAss" Lady Fighters out there...Many of them Peers/KSCA. BTW

Ya' gotta' Love 'em... (or they just might kick yer ass....be afraid....be VERY afraid)


Sr.

[Amanda M]

Sir Rauokinn made quarter finals in the last An Tir Crown. Sir Mari finaled in the last Cynaguan Coronet. Sir Roisin finaled in May 2010 Northshield Crown. Sir Brynne thirded in West June Crown of 08. Vesta thirded in Summits Coronet in 08. Sir Jocelyn le Jongleur finaled in the Midrealm fall Crown in 07.

There's just been a gob of women elevated to the Chivalry in the last couple of years as well.

[Blaine de Navarre]

I went and found the list of Queen and Princesses by their own hands:

Sir Rowan Beatrice von Kampfer, Queen of Ansteorra ‘91
Sir Maythen Gervaise, Princess of the Mists ‘81
Mistress Gwenllian Rhiannon of Dragon Keep, Princess of Drachenwald, ‘88
Sir Elizabeth Mortimer, Princess of Ealdormere : ‘96-‘97
Sir Verica of Lighthaven (Viresse de Lighthaven), Princess of Oertha, ‘97
Richenza von Augsberg, Princess of Oertha (twice) ‘98-’99 & ‘03-‘04
Sir Bryne McClellan, Princess of the Mists ‘03
Willhelmina Weydehartz (Emma Wilhelmina Giles of Ayr), Princess of Nordmark, ’09-‘10 See discussion below.

[Whitewolf Sr.]

A Most Impressive List to be sure.

Sr.

[twoswords]

Willhelmina Weydehartz (Emma Wilhelmina Giles of Ayr), Princess of Nordmark, ’09-‘10

Not correct. She is not a fighter and not authorized.

[Whitewolf Sr.]

It would do well for us to hear from some of the "Lady Fighters" as this subject should be of great interest to them.
The "girls" gotta' fight us "Big Boys" too ya' know....

Any insight Ladies ?

Sr.