Future of SCA fighting

[St. George]

Why did you have to form a shire to get those people in the SCA? Couldn't you instead just hold local A&S nights, practices, and social gatherings without the need to form a group? You can have several population centers within a group without the need for everyone to separate into their own groups and duplicate all the paperwork.

I wanted to form a Canton or a Riding.
The populace felt that they were too far away from the hubs of the neighboring Shires.
They went forward with forming a shire.

Why be a shire or canton? For that matter, why was there a need to form any group? Why the extra paperwork?

For the number of people involved, unless they seemed to have a NEED to be an officer or something official, I seriously question why you would bother.

g-

[MJBlazek]

A feeling of belonging, of community. A feeling of having our own "home" in the SCA Kingdom. Why was ANY Shire or Canton founded?
Hell, by your ideology why were any of the Kingdoms founded?
YouObvioulsy must live in a more densely populated area than I. we are very active with other events held out of shire, but at the same time we are very secluded from the other parts of the population.
Why not start a Shire? In the grand scheme of things, the paper work" is the LEAST of the problems in forming a shire.
Why should we, for the number of people involved, have to fall under the day to day dealings and decisions of people 2 hours away?

[Count Johnathan]

I have to say, if a girl based their opinion of me and our relationship on the basis of skill at rattan fighting I'd be running for the hills as fast as I could from them.

A lot of ladies have told me that it makes them feel good to be around somebody who can "kick ass" as it were. That's a pretty universal girl thing. They like the feeling that the man they are around can protect them if needed. That's just an instinctual aspect of most females. It doesn't matter what type of fighting or sport that the man might participate in. They like seeing their man dominate others. I'm guessing your wife thinks the sports and the jousting you do are cool and it probably makes her feel a little warm and fuzzy to see you kick the hell out of another man every once in a while.

"HELP! HELP!"

"Wait.. let me get my armor and my stick so I can kick ass!."

It doesn't matter what type of fighting or sport that the man might participate in. They like seeing their man dominate others.

[MJBlazek]

My wife hates to watch me fight. She's not big on violence, controlled or not. But hey.. to each thier own

[Ewen MacSuibhne]

Easy chief, don't burst a blood vessel.

[Aaron]

Yep, keep it under control good Count. Not all women like seeing their men dominate other men.

-Aaron

[St. George]

A feeling of belonging, of community. A feeling of having our own "home" in the SCA Kingdom. Why was ANY Shire or Canton founded?
Hell, by your ideology why were any of the Kingdoms founded?
YouObvioulsy must live in a more densely populated area than I. we are very active with other events held out of shire, but at the same time we are very secluded from the other parts of the population.
Why not start a Shire? In the grand scheme of things, the paper work" is the LEAST of the problems in forming a shire.
Why should we, for the number of people involved, have to fall under the day to day dealings and decisions of people 2 hours away?

What I am asking is this, what "home" does a geographically located entity of the SCA provide that all of you forming a household and doing things together could not. The answer I see is that someone needs some sort of official recognition from the SCA for something. You don't need an A&S officer to hold A&S gatherings. You don't need a Marshall to have a fight practice at your house. To make them official ones you do, but they don't have to be so.

I may be in a more populated area, but I've been to maybe 10 "local" meetings in the last 10 years. The idea of going to a Shire or other meeting kind of turns me off, as there is a whole other breed of SCA participant who only goes to meetings and tries to affect them. Local participation as opposed to national or household participation in the SCA is a very different game, and not one I tremendously enjoy.

By my ideology why were any of the Kingdoms founded? The first one was founded in 60's as the result of a party. The others were founded in distinct parts of the country. Travel and communications were different then. Those Kingdoms were created so a game could be more easily played. That same excuse is used today, but the extra Kingdoms have affected us adversely. Today all the SCA could be one Kingdom, and that would be fine with me- it would certainly make winning Crown a bigger deal. I think, however, that the SCA operates better with a few entities, but IMO there are too many.

What I am asking in your choice to form a shire, is this:

Why put yourself under the tasks of anyone? Why force yourself to have to be regulated by the SCA when everything that you can do under SCA sanction you could do on your own. Why the need to make a group?

g-

[Diglach Mac Cein]

I don't know, that just sounds, I don't know - belittling? To the ladies who are supposed to inspire US.

Happy for us when we win? Sure. But your statement makes it sound like some pseudo-sexual power trip (for who, I'm not sure).

What about FEMALE fighters? Gays? Single guys?



And I think we've taken this subject about as far afield as it can go, without invoking Blankencombatarchershield.


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[MJBlazek]

Becasue beign part of the group, the SCA Inc. Umbrella opened up a door of already available rescources.
One Example:We get to use the school gym to practice in for Free. Why? Becuase we are a branch of a Nationally recognized 501(c)3.
There are some benefites to joining an already established organization.
Yes I know.. why put yourslf through the paperwork when you can just do it. Well, if people are willign to do it, then Why Not?
I was the first Senechal, did I do it becasue I wanted a title? no. Did I do it because I wanted a title? no. I did it because somone had to in order to get it off the ground, becasue thats what the people wanted. I stepped down a year later.
I think whle there are some that want the "title" there are others that just want to feel a "part" of the bigger kingdom. By starting the Share they say, "Yes, I believe in this." And it makes it all the more important to have it succeed.

[Chris G.]

A feeling of belonging, of community. A feeling of having our own "home" in the SCA Kingdom. Why was ANY Shire or Canton founded?
Hell, by your ideology why were any of the Kingdoms founded?
YouObvioulsy must live in a more densely populated area than I. we are very active with other events held out of shire, but at the same time we are very secluded from the other parts of the population.
Why not start a Shire? In the grand scheme of things, the paper work" is the LEAST of the problems in forming a shire.
Why should we, for the number of people involved, have to fall under the day to day dealings and decisions of people 2 hours away?

A community is not made up of paperwork, there are plenty of shires, cantons, and baronies that go through the motions but do not have a sense of community. I only see the need for two, maybe three types of groups: kingdoms and baronies, with principalities being the third option for bridging the jump to forming a new kingdom. There is a certain size geographically that makes a kingdom practical and there is a certain size population that makes a barony practical. Below that population limit, a group ends up causing burnout in its members.

What dealings and decisions are being made in groups that would affect you day to day regardless of how far away they are? If you were 2 minutes or 2 hours away from the main population center of a barony, they couldn't stop you and others from meeting to work on garb, cook, sing, socialize, etc. Possibly the only thing they could stop would be allowing you to have an official fight practice because of the publication requirements (if that is still required, I can't recall). But that could and should be resolved through the organizational chain. If the local Seneschal or Knight's Marshal wouldn't let you hold a practice and you had a reason why the existing practice wouldn't work (distance, days of the week, etc) and had a marshal to conduct the practice, a quick message to the regional officer should take care of it.

[Chris G.]

Becasue beign part of the group, the SCA Inc. Umbrella opened up a door of already available rescources.
One Example:We get to use the school gym to practice in for Free. Why? Becuase we are a branch of a Nationally recognized 501(c)3.
There are some benefites to joining an already established organization.

You were already part of some branch of the SCA, making a new smaller branch shouldn't have affected your ability to use the school gym for free.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

If your group isn't able to support it's status as a Shire, maybe you should reorganize.

Not every group flourishes. Heck, some don't make it at all - no dishonor or black mark on the people living there, it just didn't happen at the time.


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[St. George]

Becasue beign part of the group, the SCA Inc. Umbrella opened up a door of already available rescources.
One Example:We get to use the school gym to practice in for Free. Why? Becuase we are a branch of a Nationally recognized 501(c)3.
There are some benefites to joining an already established organization.

You were already part of some branch of the SCA, making a new smaller branch shouldn't have affected your ability to use the school gym for free.

A quick note to the Kingdom, and having the right officer present would have allowed you the use of the School without the need to form a group.

Wouldn't the formation of a household have taken care of the other issues and been more personal?

g-

[Saritor]

But that could and should be resolved through the organizational chain. If the local Seneschal or Knight's Marshal wouldn't let you hold a practice and you had a reason why the existing practice wouldn't work (distance, days of the week, etc) and had a marshal to conduct the practice, a quick message to the regional officer should take care of it.

Should, but does not always, as it depends on the individuals in those official positions, and their relationship towards each other, as well as other factors.

The ideal would be that, yes, this would be fixed thus. It just doesn't always shake out that way in practice.

[Saritor]

A quick note to the Kingdom, and having the right officer present would have allowed you the use of the School without the need to form a group.

This also means that each time you need to use the gym, or sign the paperwork, or hold an event, you get to go through the next closest group who has to approve it happening through their chain of command. That's not always convenient, practical, or possible, depending on the people involved at the micro (or even macro) level.

[MJBlazek]

What does it matter if they did? If they wanted to? Perhaps they felt the need to do so?
Why would you belittle thier hard work by questioning the need for it?

I could say somethign like... why become a Knight? You don't have to be to fight.

[MJBlazek]

Becasue beign part of the group, the SCA Inc. Umbrella opened up a door of already available rescources.
One Example:We get to use the school gym to practice in for Free. Why? Becuase we are a branch of a Nationally recognized 501(c)3.
There are some benefites to joining an already established organization.

You were already part of some branch of the SCA, making a new smaller branch shouldn't have affected your ability to use the school gym for free.

No we werent! Thats just it. I our Geographical location there WAS no group. There was a "hole" you could call it in the SCA geography. A whole swath of land laid claim by no one.

[Count Johnathan]

I don't know, that just sounds, I don't know - belittling? To the ladies who are supposed to inspire US.

Happy for us when we win? Sure. But your statement makes it sound like some pseudo-sexual power trip (for who, I'm not sure).

What about FEMALE fighters? Gays? Single guys?



And I think we've taken this subject about as far afield as it can go, without invoking Blankencombatarchershield.



.

Now why on earth would it be belittling to suggest that some women like that their men are good fighters or that some enjoy being with a dominant male? Seriously?

Been on this planet long? Geez.

[Maeryk]

I don't know, that just sounds, I don't know - belittling? To the ladies who are supposed to inspire US.

Happy for us when we win? Sure. But your statement makes it sound like some pseudo-sexual power trip (for who, I'm not sure).

What about FEMALE fighters? Gays? Single guys?



And I think we've taken this subject about as far afield as it can go, without invoking Blankencombatarchershield.



.

Know why on earth would it be belittling to suggest that some women like that their men are good fighters or that some enjoy being with a dominant male? Seriously?

Been on this planet long? Geez.

You can't make this stuff up folks, you just can't.

[Count Johnathan]

I think you should answer the question Maeryk.

Why would it be belittling to suggest that some women like that their men are good fighters or that some enjoy being with a dominant male?

[Jess]

I may be in a more populated area, but I've been to maybe 10 "local" meetings in the last 10 years. The idea of going to a Shire or other meeting kind of turns me off, as there is a whole other breed of SCA participant who only goes to meetings and tries to affect them. Local participation as opposed to national or household participation in the SCA is a very different game, and not one I tremendously enjoy.

I could not agree more. I love many of the people in my local group dearly. We have about 8 people that plan, present, and attend about 3 SCA local activitites every week and about 3-4 local SCA events a year. They constantly moan that they do all the work. I agree, they do. What they seem to fail to grasp is that VERY FEW PEOPLE WANT TO DO ALL THIS CRAP. We don't want to plan it, run it, or attend it. They love to be "in charge" and they love to plan. They start planning X as soon as X is over as there is almost no variation in any of the activites ever. It is the same thing done by the same people as it has been for the past 20+ years. Yet there are at least a dozen 2+ hour long planning meetings for every X. On the rare occassion that I am forced to attend a meeting, I pretty much want to blow my brains out. I don't think the dichotomy is between the fighters and the nonfighters. I think it is the planners and the non-planners. And I don't really care if all the planners got mad and left the SCA. The planners are sure "everything" would crumble in the SCA without them. Maybe "everything" would. But honestly, I don't really care about the "everything" they care about. For example, if I never sat another feast the rest of my SCA life, I would be completely happy.

What do I like to do? See my friends and fight. When I got together with like minded people and we started having our own unofficial non-SCA fighter practice on a weeknight so it worked with the fighters' schedules, the local planners threw a fit. When they figured out they couldn't stop us, they tried to prevent us from emailing out notifications about the unofficial non-sca practice. When they figured out they could not prevent that, they declared their official practice to be the same time and location (public park) as ours. We will see how this shakes out, but I envision it is going to be a little tense when the planners show up and try to inspect us, make us sign waivers, and dictate the fighting conventions to us.

I think there is an element of the SCA populace that is very interested in "being in charge" and running and planning stuff. They will do this, even if there is absolutely no call to run or plan anything because no one but them wants to attend it or otherwise participate. That's cool. Those guys can go be in charge of something. Just leave me alone, please. I'm going to go where I can hang out and fight. But unlike the posters above, it has never phased me to drive 2 hours to another practice.

[St. George]

What does it matter if they did? If they wanted to? Perhaps they felt the need to do so?
Why would you belittle thier hard work by questioning the need for it?

I could say somethign like... why become a Knight? You don't have to be to fight.

I didn't become a Knight, I was recognized and made one.

I am questioning the need for 50% of all local groups, and Kingdoms in the SCA, not just theirs. Within a group that has other issues, and needs a restructuring, for both planning and economic reasons, I would recommend getting rid of a significant number of such groups.

I am a firm believer that there should be about 10 Kingdoms in the SCA, and that some of the smaller ones dilute the group out too much.

I also believe that because of the current structure we have had too many awards in the SCA and have maybe given out too many already. The weight of this bling might push new members from coming in and joining. It also makes the bling that is there feel less of an accomplishment for those who have achieved it.

g-

PS- Correct me if I am wrong, but you were part of the East Kingdom, right?

[MJBlazek]

Nothing is wrong with it.
The way you originally phrased it made it seem that ALL women do.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Long enough.

I asked my wife why she watches me fight. Her response "Becuase you look so damn happy out there."
She doesn't care if I win or lose, if I'm having a good time doing it. I would wonder about a lady who's big attraction to me was that I was good at hitting people with sticks....

That's not to say I haven't seen women in the SCA trolling the list field for Sir "He'll-make-me-a-queen". They rarely end up happy.

But hey, if I missed your point somehow, sorry -

.

[MJBlazek]

What does it matter if they did? If they wanted to? Perhaps they felt the need to do so?
Why would you belittle thier hard work by questioning the need for it?

I could say somethign like... why become a Knight? You don't have to be to fight.

I didn't become a Knight, I was recognized and made one.

I am questioning the need for 50% of all local groups, and Kingdoms in the SCA, not just theirs. Within a group that has other issues, and needs a restructuring, for both planning and economic reasons, I would recommend getting rid of a significant number of such groups.

I am a firm believer that there should be about 10 Kingdoms in the SCA, and that some of the smaller ones dilute the group out too much.

I also believe that because of the current structure we have had too many awards in the SCA and have maybe given out too many already. The weight of this bling might push new members from coming in and joining. It also makes the bling that is there feel less of an accomplishment for those who have achieved it.

g-

PS- Correct me if I am wrong, but you were part of the East Kingdom, right?

No, thats the WHOLE POINT. ther was a group of Zip Codes there were unrecognized by ANYONE. They DID NOT EXSIST.

[Count Johnathan]

Apparently some woman is into Maeryk so I guess that shoots the theory all to hell doesn't it?

Some people just try to find any reason they can to be serious a-holes.

[Count Johnathan]

Long enough.

I asked my wife why she watches me fight. Her response "Becuase you look so damn happy out there."
She doesn't care if I win or lose, if I'm having a good time doing it. I would wonder about a lady who's big attraction to me was that I was good at hitting people with sticks....

That's not to say I haven't seen women in the SCA trolling the list field for Sir "He'll-make-me-a-queen". They rarely end up happy.

But hey, if I missed your point somehow, sorry -

.

Yeah you seriously did miss the point.

Go watch a nature show.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

We're a bit more evolved, ya know?

Is it ONE thing they might find attractive? Sure. If it's the main thing, somebody is in for a let down.

And what does that say about women who typically don't stay at the lists to watch their significant others fight, but instead go chat with friends, do Arts and Sciences, or archery...

.

[Chris G.]

No we werent! Thats just it. I our Geographical location there WAS no group. There was a "hole" you could call it in the SCA geography. A whole swath of land laid claim by no one.

There are tons of zipcodes across the country that are in a similar situation. Usually they don't have anyone involved in the SCA living them... until they do. People in that position have three option, have their zipcodes added to one of the groups they border, create a new group (as was done in your case), or do stuff in the SCA without having a local group.

There were often problems with the zipcode database, for a while, the Barony of Black Diamond (located in Virginia) had Epcot center's zipcode, until someone pointed it out.

No one is trying to belittle your shire. Many new areas feel the need to form a local group when they get a few members. Many of these new groups have low population levels and suffer burnout a few years after forming. My point is some groups do it because they think they have to in order to do anything with the SCA, which is not the case.

[MJBlazek]

Alright, I can agree with that.
No one here thought they HAD to do it. they did it because they wanted to.
As for why? I dunno.. maybe we are all sick in the head

We actually have something like 22 paid members (if you include all the kids) , which is larger than some areas, but smaller than some too.


edited for typing errors

[Aaron]

Yep, I was fighting at a tournament in Japan and ended up saluting the mall my wife and her friend were shopping at while I fought. I saluted the mall for every bout for almost two hours. Shopping was much more interesting than seeing me or anybody else fight. And when they were there, she was videotaping for me and I got a running commentary about fabric on the audio. It's still a fun sport, but I don't think I impress my wife one bit with the bouts and she humors me with praise when she can. She has said I look sexy in the armour, so that's a win. And she said she was honest too!

-Aaron

[Diglach Mac Cein]

OK, then look at the root source of your group's problems -

Too few people trying to do too many events? Don't hold so many events.
Not enough members? Focus on recruiting. Hold outdoor meetings at a park, have flyers or a business card ready.
Most offices don't require much more than a report on a regular basis. No archery? Report says "No archery this quarter". Don't try to force an activity just becuase it is there.

Let the group grow at it's own pace, and the rest happens.

[MJBlazek]

my wife has only ever been to 4 events

[Jan]

What does it matter if they did? If they wanted to? Perhaps they felt the need to do so?
Why would you belittle thier hard work by questioning the need for it?

I could say somethign like... why become a Knight? You don't have to be to fight.

I didn't become a Knight, I was recognized and made one.

I am questioning the need for 50% of all local groups, and Kingdoms in the SCA, not just theirs. Within a group that has other issues, and needs a restructuring, for both planning and economic reasons, I would recommend getting rid of a significant number of such groups.

I am a firm believer that there should be about 10 Kingdoms in the SCA, and that some of the smaller ones dilute the group out too much.

I also believe that because of the current structure we have had too many awards in the SCA and have maybe given out too many already. The weight of this bling might push new members from coming in and joining. It also makes the bling that is there feel less of an accomplishment for those who have achieved it.

g-

PS- Correct me if I am wrong, but you were part of the East Kingdom, right?

No, thats the WHOLE POINT. ther was a group of Zip Codes there were unrecognized by ANYONE. They DID NOT EXSIST.

Actually...technically, yes you were part of the East Kingdom, but as "Crown Lands", not lands belonging to any local group within the East. There are whole swaths of areas that come under this classification. In many ways the zip codes associated with "local groups" just have to do with census type stuff, whether you can vote for the baron/baroness and whether you can be an officer within said local group. Ages ago we had someone who wanted to become our new chronicler, but she didn't live in one of our zips. It turned out the zip she lived in wasn't claimed by anyone so we claimed it and thus she was able to be an officer.

[MJBlazek]

OK, then look at the root source of your group's problems -

Too few people trying to do too many events? Don't hold so many events.
Not enough members? Focus on recruiting. Hold outdoor meetings at a park, have flyers or a business card ready.
Most offices don't require much more than a report on a regular basis. No archery? Report says "No archery this quarter". Don't try to force an activity just becuase it is there.

Let the group grow at it's own pace, and the rest happens.

I think a large part of it is that there is "demand" for activiteis, but only a few people willing to run the activity. Thats where the burn out is coming from. Not from a forcing of trying to do things, but from a doing too much.
I offered the idea of deputies to offer a day off to those running the activity, but no one really stepped up to that.
I don't do much in the running of the shire anymore. I jus tdon't want to see it run inot the ground.