Making an effective and cool-looking BASTARD sword thread...

[Glaukos the Athenian]

I looked but there are so many side hits that it is hard to find the correct postings.
I need good plans for a cold weather project to make a nice and effective longsword or two handed sword.

Can you show how you have made your longsword? Do you have pics, diagrams and instructions?

Thanks!!!

Glaukos

Edited for accuracy.

[Tom B.]

Is this for a SCA rattan weapon?

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Is this for a SCA rattan weapon?

Yes sir.

[Baron Eirik]

Pick a historical weapon you wish to emulate. Get a piece of rattan. Carve away anything that isn't that sword. Stop before you make it too skinny.

[jester]

Take a 4 inch diameter piece of rattan. Shave the sides down to 1 inch. Shave the edges down so they are 1 inch in all directions at the tip and 3.5 inches where the guard will be attached. Lay the sword on it's side and drill 1 inch diameter holes in it. About eight of them starting two inches above the guard and separated by a least an inch between their outside edges. Cut eight one inch pieces of 1 inch exterior diameter siloflex. Insert them into the holes. Take a router (a half inch diameter hemispherical bit) and put in a fuller from one inch above the guard up towards the tip. Not all the way to the tip, you want to stop about six inches or more from the tip. Cut two pieces of dowel rod that will fit into the fuller you just routed. Put them aside. Shape the edges, round off any flat edges, sand any rough spots.

Take a piece of 1 inch interior diameter siloflex that is three inches longer than the blade of your sword. Drill two holes on opposite sides of one end of the siloflex (more holes in a staggered circle actually work better; you will put laces through these holes and use them to help pull the siloflex on the tube). Heat the tube up (best accomplished using a heat gun and a metal pipe with a 1.5 inch interior ) making sure the end with the holes drilled in it is closest to the heat source. Lube the rattan by applying liquid dish soap on the blade. Take the siloflex out of the heater, quickly put shoe laces (or any thick cordage that won't easily cut the soft siloflex or your hands) through the holes and pull the siloflex onto the sword blade. Pull past the guard. Put the dowels on top of the fullers and use clamps to secure them, pushing the siloflex into the fuller. Let the blade cool as slowly as possible.

Remove the clamps. Trim the excess siloflex. Start pricing the guard and pommel you want. Then take a look at a Swordcrafts aluminum trainer and compare the price. Ask yourself why the hell you're going to all this work. Walk away in frustration. If you come back to the project, finish it as per standard. Don't forget to apply duct-tape.

[Galvyn Lockhart]

Take a 4 inch diameter piece of rattan. Shave the sides down to 1 inch. Shave the edges down so they are 1 inch in all directions at the tip and 3.5 inches where the guard will be attached. Lay the sword on it's side and drill 1 inch diameter holes in it. About eight of them starting two inches above the guard and separated by a least an inch between their outside edges. Cut eight one inch pieces of 1 inch exterior diameter siloflex. Insert them into the holes. Take a router (a half inch diameter hemispherical bit) and put in a fuller from one inch above the guard up towards the tip. Not all the way to the tip, you want to stop about six inches or more from the tip. Cut two pieces of dowel rod that will fit into the fuller you just routed. Put them aside. Shape the edges, round off any flat edges, sand any rough spots.

Take a piece of 1 inch interior diameter siloflex that is three inches longer than the blade of your sword. Drill two holes on opposite sides of one end of the siloflex (more holes in a staggered circle actually work better; you will put laces through these holes and use them to help pull the siloflex on the tube). Heat the tube up (best accomplished using a heat gun and a metal pipe with a 1.5 inch interior ) making sure the end with the holes drilled in it is closest to the heat source. Lube the rattan by applying liquid dish soap on the blade. Take the siloflex out of the heater, quickly put shoe laces (or any thick cordage that won't easily cut the soft siloflex or your hands) through the holes and pull the siloflex onto the sword blade. Pull past the guard. Put the dowels on top of the fullers and use clamps to secure them, pushing the siloflex into the fuller. Let the blade cool as slowly as possible.

Remove the clamps. Trim the excess siloflex. Start pricing the guard and pommel you want. Then take a look at a Swordcrafts aluminum trainer and compare the price. Ask yourself why the hell you're going to all this work. Walk away in frustration. If you come back to the project, finish it as per standard. Don't forget to apply duct-tape.

Do you think you could include some pics of this wonderous method of construction? I mean, this threads worthless w/out pics.

[jester]

No. When I hit $100 on the parts and labor list I shelved the entire idea. Also, at the time the rules prohibited a single-handed sword that had any blade cross section that was less than 1.25in so the fuller would have made the sword a no-go. I don't think that's the case anymore, but I honestly don't care enough to take the time to check. I throw my half-assed ideas out there in case any of the many talented rattan sword-makers want to try them out.

For my part, I'd like to see the rules specifically allow batons (aka the one-handed bar mace) in some combats (ie not for general use). Trying to make rattan look like swords seems to me like a losing battle. Which isn't to say that I'm not incredibly impressed by some of the work I've seen people do. Amazing stuff.

[William of Stonebridge]

... Lay the sword on it's side and drill 1 inch diameter holes in it. About eight of them starting two inches above the guard and separated by a least an inch between their outside edges. Cut eight one inch pieces of 1 inch exterior diameter siloflex. Insert them into the holes. ...

I am not understanding this. Are you drilling holes from flat to flat in the rattan and filling them with siloflex to reduce weight? Would this decrease strength and be more prone to break at the holes? Or does the outer siloflex just hold everything together?

[Nissan Maxima]

do this

[Nissan Maxima]

but big like this

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=130565&p=1928101&hilit=duel#p1928101

[jester]

... Lay the sword on it's side and drill 1 inch diameter holes in it. About eight of them starting two inches above the guard and separated by a least an inch between their outside edges. Cut eight one inch pieces of 1 inch exterior diameter siloflex. Insert them into the holes. ...

I am not understanding this. Are you drilling holes from flat to flat in the rattan and filling them with siloflex to reduce weight? Would this decrease strength and be more prone to break at the holes? Or does the outer siloflex just hold everything together?

Yes. Yes. And Yes. The holes are to reduce weight and balance the sword. The siloflex inserted into them is to help prevent the remaining rattan from brooming inside. I don't know how well it works.

[Giovanni_d'Alba]

For what it's worth, the very highly sculpted latex weapons you see in some European LARPS and NERO are made of layers of closed-cell foam sandwiched and glued together around a fiberglass core, sculpted, and then coated in latex. Which is, of course, an utterly unworkable model for an SCA weapon. Sigh.

Wonder there's something else you could coat a rattan core with to sculpt into a blade form? Fiberglass? Tool dip? Man can dream...

[audax]

Buy a rattan waster from Baron Eirik. Buy some Windrose sword hardware. Put them together. Apply duct tape. Hit people.

The End.

[audax]

BTW, what the hell is this "cold weather" of which you speak?

[brewer]

Buy a rattan waster from Baron Eirik. Buy some Windrose sword hardware. Put them together. Apply duct tape. Hit people.

The End.

This.

[hivemind]

Buy a rattan waster from Baron Eirik. Buy some Windrose sword hardware. Put them together. Apply duct tape. Hit people.

The End.

Where do I procure such a waster?

[brewer]

Um..."Buy a rattan waster from Baron Eirik."

He's a very active user on the AA.

Bob

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Bob,

I believe he means -as I meant- the type of work on the blank such as Nissan shows in his diagram. Anyone can cover a stick with duct tape and slap a couple of fittings. SHAPING the stick to look like a sword... that is what I am talking about. you need tools and SKILL....

As for Baron Eirik, I know him well, personally and painfully close, as he is death personified with an axe....

[Baron Eirik]

Bob,

I believe he means -as I meant- the type of work on the blank such as Nissan shows in his diagram. Anyone can cover a stick with duct tape and slap a couple of fittings. SHAPING the stick to look like a sword... that is what I am talking about. you need tools and SKILL....

As for Baron Eirik, I know him well, personally and painfully close, as he is death personified with an axe....

Flatterer

Rattan Wasters

I need to update with the stock that remains after Pennsic, though.

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Bob,

I believe he means -as I meant- the type of work on the blank such as Nissan shows in his diagram. Anyone can cover a stick with duct tape and slap a couple of fittings. SHAPING the stick to look like a sword... that is what I am talking about. you need tools and SKILL....

As for Baron Eirik, I know him well, personally and painfully close, as he is death personified with an axe....

Flatterer

Rattan Wasters

I need to update with the stock that remains after Pennsic, though.

You have two handed rattan sword wasters pre cut ?

[brewer]

See!? Glaukos, I wasn't just being a jerk. (Well, okay, THIS time. )

Bob

[Baron Eirik]

You have two handed rattan sword wasters pre cut ?

We can

What dimensions are you wanting?

[Glaukos the Athenian]

You have two handed rattan sword wasters pre cut ?

We can

What dimensions are you wanting?

Good Question....

I think I want something of the dimensions of a Shinai, but that I can make into two handed sword... let me go check my old shinai and let you k/now



Edited for idiocy: I gave away my shinais together with my Bogu to my neighbor who started Kendo. Now I need to figure this out.

Maybe 30 inch blade and 12 inch grip, with extra for the fittings?

[Guy Dawkins]

Maybe 30 inch blade and 12 inch grip, with extra for the fittings?

30" blade? My single handed sword has a 30" blade.

My short longsword has a 36" blade with a 7" grip . My bigger longsword has a 42" blade and a 12" grip.

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Maybe 30 inch blade and 12 inch grip, with extra for the fittings?

30" blade? My single handed sword has a 30" blade.

My short longsword has a 36" blade with a 7" grip . My bigger longsword has a 42" blade and a 12" grip.

How tall are you? I am 5'7". My Katanas are usually 27" or 28" long with 12 inch Tsukas. And Shinai have a length of about 33" in the "blade" so I came up with an average. I guess I can use 33" like a shinai.
The #39 shinai, which is standard for adult males is 47" TOTAL, including the "grip" of about 12-13 inches.

I have had this discussion with different people. My two handed sword fighting derives straight from my limited Kendo training. MOST (not all but most) of the two handed sword fighters I have seen and faced use their swords as short polearms. Short two handed hits on the head or shoulders. Yet I know there are great two handed swordsmen out there to learn from. (I have in mind especially Ragnar at Ponte Alto, who is also a super guy) Another bright exception to my experience was the most excellent Earl Nigel, who came to fight me at the bridge with his two handed sword and gave me a most honorable and most enjoyable fight. In fact it was my encounter with him which rekindled my interest in two handed sword fighting. It was fun.

Also, the sword I used in that bout was borrowed from my knight (who I believe borrowed it from HH Duke Cuan), and though longer than my desired length, it was beautifully balanced and worked very well) (I have to ask HH Cuan who made it)
Many such swords are shaped like sticks and balance like halberds.

Mind you, it is not that people are not effective, is that I am not effective using a polearm with a grip at the bottom. I am a shorter guy, and I prefer a two handed sword I can maneuver with and block with, besides just hitting. So perhaps what I am referring to is a Bastard Sword, and not a Longsword, such as a Katana is not Tachi.

Then, I have made an imprecise use of the word Longsword, and I need bastard sword. I apologize for the confusion.

So let's call this a 33" blade and 13 inch grip waster, to allow space for the guard and pommel...

[Baron Alcyoneus]

The size of the longsword you originally mentioned would be a longsword according to Oakeshott.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword

[Baron Eirik]

That could be done easily as our Type 15A with a slightly longer than usual handle.

[jester]

How much does one of those beautiful pieces of rattan cost?

[Baron Eirik]

The type 10s are $75, Type 12s are $95, Type 15s are $50. Seen in that order in this pic



I've got better pics somewhere, but I'm not finding them at the moment.

[Baron Eirik]

More pics: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =1&theater

[Sir Guy]

Pince Cuan makes all his own weapons. Glaukos, Semja took the measurements for the weapon as well and plans on making at least one based on those measurements and discussns he had with Duke Paul.

Maybe 30 inch blade and 12 inch grip, with extra for the fittings?

30" blade? My single handed sword has a 30" blade.

My short longsword has a 36" blade with a 7" grip . My bigger longsword has a 42" blade and a 12" grip.

How tall are you? I am 5'7". My Katanas are usually 27" or 28" long with 12 inch Tsukas. And Shinai have a length of about 33" in the "blade" so I came up with an average. I guess I can use 33" like a shinai.
The #39 shinai, which is standard for adult males is 47" TOTAL, including the "grip" of about 12-13 inches.

I have had this discussion with different people. My two handed sword fighting derives straight from my limited Kendo training. MOST (not all but most) of the two handed sword fighters I have seen and faced use their swords as short polearms. Short two handed hits on the head or shoulders. Yet I know there are great two handed swordsmen out there to learn from. (I have in mind especially Ragnar at Ponte Alto, who is also a super guy) Another bright exception to my experience was the most excellent Earl Nigel, who came to fight me at the bridge with his two handed sword and gave me a most honorable and most enjoyable fight. In fact it was my encounter with him which rekindled my interest in two handed sword fighting. It was fun.

Also, the sword I used in that bout was borrowed from my knight (who I believe borrowed it from HH Duke Cuan), and though longer than my desired length, it was beautifully balanced and worked very well) (I have to ask HH Cuan who made it)
Many such swords are shaped like sticks and balance like halberds.

Mind you, it is not that people are not effective, is that I am not effective using a polearm with a grip at the bottom. I am a shorter guy, and I prefer a two handed sword I can maneuver with and block with, besides just hitting. So perhaps what I am referring to is a Bastard Sword, and not a Longsword, such as a Katana is not Tachi.

Then, I have made an imprecise use of the word Longsword, and I need bastard sword. I apologize for the confusion.

So let's call this a 33" blade and 13 inch grip waster, to allow space for the guard and pommel...

[Andrew Sterner]

{LOTS of good stuff, but a wall of text, not needed for my reply}

You just added something to my bucket list.

I now want to have a duel with someone using short, two handed swords, a la samurai. Thank you so much. I don't know when I'll ever be ready for such a thing(I still suck something fierce with sword and shield), but when such a time comes, I hope I can find an opponent ready to face me

Bonus points if we're both wearing authentic samurai armor( that may be a bit too much for my little brain to handle).

[Nissan Maxima]

{LOTS of good stuff, but a wall of text, not needed for my reply}

You just added something to my bucket list.

I now want to have a duel with someone using short, two handed swords, a la samurai. Thank you so much. I don't know when I'll ever be ready for such a thing(I still suck something fierce with sword and shield), but when such a time comes, I hope I can find an opponent ready to face me

Bonus points if we're both wearing authentic samurai armor( that may be a bit too much for my little brain to handle).

Come find me anytime you are ready.

[Gurahl]

Think I need to change my braies....

[Andrew Sterner]

Think I need to change my braies....

I had a cold sweat roll down my forehead when I saw who had replied, and now...well, I'll be hitting the pell and the gym about three times as much as I am now....I don't think I've had such a strong motivation in a long time.

I'll be sure to find you when the time comes, I love a good ass whooping(my ass).