How to teach yourself to not hit flat.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:31 pm

There are basically two options, and they involve how you build your sword.

The first approach is if you use a longer sword; say about a yard long and above. The best way to do it is to start with rattan that is about 1 1/2" wide. Then you carve down the sides so you can clearly see the difference between the flat and edge of the blade.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:33 pm

See? The sides are flat. You know how to use a utility knife, right? You have a marshall's gauge, right?

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:34 pm

I can't force the gauge all the way over the blade. It is just over 1 1/4" in width.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:35 pm

I also like to fight with a falchion, that is made from a 2 1/4" piece of fat rattan. It's really easy to tell when I land flat. Hell, it's really obvious to me when I do it.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:36 pm

My falchion is also just over the minimum width- I can't force the gauge over it.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:37 pm

The length of the falchion blade.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:37 pm

Overall length of falchion.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:41 pm

The width of my falchion.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:43 pm

At the end of the day you simply look at your sword blade and you can tell how many off-edge shots you threw that day. It's not perfect because of blocks you may do etc. but you really get a clearer picture of what you are doing.

If you use a narrow piece of tape on your edge you can REALLY nitpick them.

Keegan Ingrassia · Post by **Keegan Ingrassia** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:48 pm

I've got an old axe-handle I use for pell work that has the exact same dimensions as your falchion. Really easy to tell a flat blow.

Rey · Post by **Rey** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:50 pm

I just spent a lot of time practicing on weeds and small trees with a machete, you figure out if you hit flat or not real quick.

Rey

Johann ColdIron · Post by **Johann ColdIron** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:50 pm

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:If you use a narrow piece of tape on your edge you can REALLY nitpick them.

I use about a 1/4-3/8" strip for just that reason. I like to know where I am striking.

Glaukos the Athenian · Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:00 pm

If I may suggest, I gained a great deal of control on that since I started using the sword made by Duke Paul, which I intent to model my future ones after.

He carves the grip rather aggressively, so that instead of a round grip you have a rather narrow oval, close to the shape of actual sword grips. Hitting flat then becomes anatomically harder than hitting straight. (hitting hard is a different matter)

Worth considering as part of sword building.

Glaukos

Baron Eirik · Post by **Baron Eirik** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:15 pm

I've always had a very oval grip, it gave me a better grip. For the past 3-4 years I've used a shaped blade. I highly recommend it.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:38 pm

To avoid striking flat, a shaped grip that lets you know your edge alignment is the single most valuable tool. Shaped blades help make it more obvious (on both the striking and receiving ends) when you land flat, but a shaped hilt tells you if you're properly aligned before you hit.

And checking your blade for where the marks fall should be something everyone does in the course of learning to hit with sticks, as it tells you lots of things about how you are fighting.

Keegan Ingrassia · Post by **Keegan Ingrassia** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:40 pm

...It never actually occured to me to shape the blade, and -not- shape the grip as well. People do that?

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:41 pm

What Kilkenny said.. my grip had to sit so the "edge" was lined up with my knuckles (the middle set, not the ones at the base of the fingers) and once that happened, bingo, no more flatso.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:55 pm

My grips are oval BTW.

Diglach Mac Cein · Post by **Diglach Mac Cein** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:16 pm

Yup! Agree on all counts!

.

maxntropy · Post by **maxntropy** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:34 pm

Glaukos the Athenian wrote:If I may suggest, I gained a great deal of control on that since I started using the sword made by Duke Paul, which I intent to model my future ones after.

He carves the grip rather aggressively, so that instead of a round grip you have a rather narrow oval, close to the shape of actual sword grips. Hitting flat then becomes anatomically harder than hitting straight. (hitting hard is a different matter)

Like Paul, I also carve the grip into a shape that not only better fits the way my closed hand works, but also enables me to gauge -- by feel -- if I am on-blade or not.

Not QUITE Oval -- perhaps more closely that of a tear-drop shape, where by bringing one end of the oval to more of a triangular angle, that edge can sit squarely within the line made by my knuckles when gripping (the line roughly indicated by the top of the ruler in the image below) and keep me constantly aware of where the blade is -- since if the triangular edge is in that knuckle line, the blade will be in-line with that edge/line.

Max Von Halstern

Ilia_Caid · Post by **Ilia_Caid** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:05 pm

I use a balsa wood yard stick for slow work. Swing too fast while flat, <crack>... I also used shaped blade/handles for my rattan wasters.

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:21 pm

I agree about starting with oversized rattan and giving the blade 2 flat sides, and also shaping the grip. The shaped grip is how you can feel when you hit flat.

I have taken to doing pell work up to about 1/2 speed with a steel sword.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:26 pm

Rey wrote:I just spent a lot of time practicing on weeds and small trees with a machete, you figure out if you hit flat or not real quick.

Rey

When I lived in Maryland I had to clear a lot of briar bushes with a bushhook. Man that was a workout and if I didn't hit cleanly, the bushhook twisted and didn't "bite" on the briar bushes.

-Aaron

Ieuan Gower · Post by **Ieuan Gower** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:05 pm

I have an aluminum waster I made a few years ago that I use for pell work. The grip is intentionally very rectangular. Edge-on blows are just fine but blows that come in flat or off-edge kick the blade sideways making the grip turn uncomfortably in the hand. I find that this works very well when I am trying to figure out new shots or fine tune old ones as I get immediate negative feedback when my technique even begins to get sloppy even at slower speeds.

- HRH Ieuan

rhys · Post by **rhys** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:56 pm

I shave my swords down you can really feel when the blade "rolls"..as an added bonus to my swords, they are carved for me... handles and all...Since I have arthritis in my right elbow and can't get full extention I have my swords canted from my handle...works great for me but when people borrow my sword they roll their shots. It is funny to watch their faces until they figure it out , or I tell them...

Livia Tasia · Post by **Livia Tasia** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:24 pm

The first thing done with my sword was to carve out the grip to fit my hand. I can really tell the difference in how I handle a sword that isn't more fitted for me.

Tasia

Thorstenn · Post by **Thorstenn** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:08 pm

I always shape my handles, sometimes I shave the blades, but I am curious as to why you have to have a longer sword? but you Falchion can be short. This makes no sense to me. Striking on blade has to do with technique not length IMO.

Thor-

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:30 pm

I almost never ever throw a flat blow with a single handed sword.

I do not throw 'wrap' shots.

Hmmm.........

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:19 pm

Mark1-A1 BAttle pancake. My standard training tool to get people out of "stick mentality."
Get a cardboard box. Cut it in half so it's long like a really ridiculously wide sword blade.
Put a stick up its butt and tape it solid.

Twenty minutes with that and you won't cut flat for a month.

Noe · Post by **Noe** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:50 am

I like that falchion!

Ieuan Gower · Post by **Ieuan Gower** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:16 am

I think Leo is trying to say something... maybe if I turn my laptop upside down and grab a mirror

How to teach yourself to not hit flat.

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