Mafia Members: What's cool about 14th Century?

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Hey folks,

This question is directed at the ladies and gents who would consider themselves members of the "14th century mafia," or any who admire the society and culture of Europe during this era. I was going to put in my two cents first, but have decided that I don't want to dictate the flow of this conversation. So, I'll leave it with the question - what's attractive and cool about the 14th century? Cheers.

-Gerhard

[knitebee]

variety in armour, its a time when things transitioned from mail to full plate.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

variety in clothing, its a time when things transitioned from loose to fitted clothing.

[Luca Sogliano]

As a whole, the armor is very protective in an SCA context, while covering all the required areas with a minimum of necessary modernisms.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Well, since we got it started... I suppose I'll interject by saying I was interested in some more specific observations. Like, what sort of material items or historical facts do you think are cool about the 14th century?

It's decidedly not my cup of tea for a number of reasons due to personal preference. Nonetheless, I love the literature of the era, ranging from Gawain and the Green Knight to The Inferno. Some really fine stuff was written in the 14th century, methinks, and I'm still just dabbling! I also enjoy transitional armor just because I can't help myself, it's cool stuff. I'm fascinated by the early developments in Central Europe from between 1300-1330 or so, with heavy use of splinted and cuir armor as well as a very conservative trend to continue using great helms of various sorts for quite some time.

-Gerhard

[jarlragnar]

People throughout the ages have always that that the end of the world was just around the corner. The 14th century was no exeption. Hell, they probably had more reasons than anyone to think this way. The prosperous 13th century would be challenged by many calamities simultaneously or in quick succession, and ultimately give way to the century that most people would say best represents the middle ages. First, the hundred years war continued for, well, over a hundred years. It drained the economies of the belligerents involved, not to mention wrecked France's countryside for generations. Even when formal truces were in place, free companies of men with no incomes terrorized and pillaged like land-vikings.Then the plague, depending on which estimates you consider, killed one third to one half of the population in just a few years. Every ten or so years thereafter, it would raise its head again in some fashion, reminding the people that death was still only just around the corner. This challenged the church's near monopol(ic)? grasp on the medieval mindset. Soon you have various religious movements and sects popping up. First, the flagellants and dancers, but later more serious challenges like Lollardy. There were various peasant uprisings, not to mention a schism in the church that basically fueled the hundred years war as alllegiance to the popes was based on what side of the war was taken (roughly). And yes, fashion and armour changed too.

[jester]

The Castillian Civil War, internecine strife in Angou, Normandy, and the entire Italian penninsula. The lull in the Reconquista that briefly brought a flicker of the prosperous 12th and 13th Centuries back to Spain. Fechtbucher. The first stirrings of the Rennaisance and the birth of popular literature. Transitional armor.

[Cian of Storvik]

When I decided to pick a time frame to glom onto, I started with early 15th century English, height of the hundred years war. But quickly realized that the transitional armor of the 14th century lended itself best (in my mind) to the SCA type of fighting with the least expense or worry (floating cops and some solid plates are good for blunt trauma yet minimize the reduction of maneuverability). I will concede that well made articulated plate armor can be even more protective of blunt trauma, but really requires a suit built for the user and an expense many of us cannot conceive of investing.
I quickly honed in on 3rd quarter of the 14th century because, as a man, I like Cotehardies. They seemed the least fanciful attire (and are middle of the road in cost) of garb. And are like a modern sport coat with 10 times as many buttons and lacking pockets. Unlike earlier garments worn by nobles; gowns or later period; the houppelands and mahoitered doublets which appear more fanciful to my mind. Later stuff also exposes the crotch a lot which I'm not very comfortable with. So cotehardies seemed like the best choice in my mind.
Once again, the 3rd quarter of this century in northern Europe, splinted armor is still in use by men-at-arms in many countries and by some knights, as well as plates and maille, for a variety of directions to take it to.

Also, the 14th century as a whole, which I didn't realize at first, is the origin of some of my favorite stories and tales.
The 14th century is:
-The basis for A Conan Doyle's "The White Company" and "Sir Nigel" stories
-It is the time in which the earliest Robin Hood poems and stories originate. And the first records of people in criminal rolls being referred to as "Robin Hood"
-The first and most prestigious order of chivalry was inaugurated; "The Order of the Garter" in England by Edward III
-The classic stories of King Arthur were combined from Wales, England and France to form Mallory's "Le Morte d' Arthur"
-The Canterbury Tales were written by Chausser
-The exploits of Edward III and heroic conflicts as written by Froissart in his "Chronicals" transpired; see Crecy &, Poitiers

There are other motivations. But these seemed enough at the time.
-C

[Thomas Powers]

Well I heard Isaac Asimov call it a great century since it was the only one documented where the population of the earth went *down*!

[maxntropy]

Personally, I just think it is by far the best combination of protection and mobility for armoured full-contact foot combat of the type that we undertake in the Society.

I'm more of a 15th Century sort myself by stylistic preference... but 14th is just a better overall fit for our game. And yes... I know that there are plenty of folks who do well with 15th Century rigs. But if you do a good mix of tourney and melee, and like to put stuff on yourself and take stuff off yourself, and lug your stuff on and off the field yourself... then all-around, 14thC is just a better fit.

My $.02, of course. Others' mileage has and will certainly vary.

Max Von Halstern

[Tomburr]

Everything.

I like the clothing style. I like the development of opulence that really seems to 'pop' with the fancy fabrics and sometimes heavily decorated accessories. I like the sheer variation, as mentioned before. There's so many widely differing directions to go within that century. That is cool.
I like the weapons coming about during that time. The heraldry has really evolved into it's heyday of complexity and expression through symbolism.
And the armour, what style! People are experimenting and learning about plate armour, so you get some really interesting stuff to copy. And it's seems to be much more individualistic in detail than later plate armour that is exported, for instance.

[Malachiuri]

Linen shorts and a linen shirt when its 100 degrees.

'nuff said

[Josh W]

It's the quickest, cheapest, dirtiest way to achieve something close to the classic pop-culture "knight in shining armour" look. Pulling off a decent and convincing 15th or 16th century fully-armoured look is too difficult and/or expensive for the average re-enactor.

I think the 14th century look owes its popularity to this more than any other factor.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Or maybe, we actually like the time period...

[Buster]

It's the quickest, cheapest, dirtiest way to achieve something close to the classic pop-culture "knight in shining armour" look. Pulling off a decent and convincing 15th or 16th century fully-armoured look is too difficult and/or expensive for the average re-enactor.

I think the 14th century look owes its popularity to this more than any other factor.

Pulling off a truly convincing mid-14th century knightly harness would be just as difficult as a later period harness.
I've actually never seen it done. (Though I have seen a number of good later armours.)

14th century is a lot cheaper and easier to half-ass, though.
Everyone seems to think of the 14th century as nothing but Wisby armour for the first half, and Churburg arms/breastplates for the second half, which simply isn't accurate.

[Sigismund von Helfenstein]

Or maybe, we actually like the time period...

^This^

I find it to be one of the most interesting centuries to study. What with plagues and a hundred years of war, what is not to love?

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Read Sir Nigel, by Arthur Conan Doyle.

[Aaron]

"A Distant Mirror" is also a good book to read on the 14th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Distant_Mirror

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Pulling off a truly convincing mid-14th century knightly harness would be just as difficult as a later period harness. I've actually never seen it done.

Be patient.

[Tomburr]

I'm trying to be patient, but I've been subscribed to that topic for over a year now. How long must we be tortured?

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Mmm...one day, I would love to achieve the level of expertise as Mr. Gilman.
I want to do like he does...and Mr. Mac...and about half a dozen other greats.

[RandallMoffett]

I think plenty of people are doing a great job of mid 14th, though it still is under represented. You do not need a flashy and armour with lots of shine to do it right just research.... though having a nice flashy harness with research is hard to beat if you can do it.

RPM

[Bo Harris]

For me, as an artist, it is the gothic arch and symmetry.

For me the reenactor, it was that I didn't want to wear tights and have puffy shoulders. I started thinking Crusades era, but then found more stuff to play with in the 14th (see all the above comments).

[Kenwrec Wulfe]

"A Distant Mirror" is also a good book to read on the 14th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Distant_Mirror

+10!!

An excellent book!

As to what I like about it?

Not only is there a HUGE amount of change that takes palce in this century, from clothing to armour to tech to the 100 years war (or part of it.) You also have the changes brought about by the plague and a significant amount of societal upheaval.

For SCA - there is a large amount of choice for clothing and armour from the beginning to the end of the century and from the east to the west of Europe. Factor in the Arabic nations, Byzantine, Russia and go further into China, Mongolia and India and you have a literal plethora of choices.

[Skutai]

I have both a 14c. Mafia American Express card, and knowledge of the Spangen Menace secret handshake. For the Mafia, it really comes down to having the license to wear a napkin on our heads. For the Menace, it's all about beards and optional bathing.

[Derian le Breton]

It's a highly dynamic century. As noted, there were big changes in clothing and armour. There were also massive changes in social and economic life, particularly following the black death.

It's also a pretty good time period with regard to sources of information.

-Derian.

[maxntropy]

Linen shorts and a linen shirt when its 100 degrees.

'nuff said

Man is that *SO* true.

Give me my 14thC undergarments at war... or give me heat stroke!

Don't tread, on me, man.

Max Von Halstern

[Vitus von Atzinger]

It makes fighting on foot more tolerable...

[Edward MacTavish]

Well the greatest Edwards in history are 14th century> The armour is really cool. Quite a bit of other nifty trinkets as well. We have War and peace, bounty and famine, saints and heracy. And hell we have two popes. Who else can claim that? I mean really. What else do you want.

Edward

[deflagratio]

Braise and chausses are the most comfortable thing ever.

[azure d'or]

Well. as a costumer, I love the clothing in western Europe, and the complexity involved in the level of construction and patterning that.s involved - and frankly, the intense body consciousness that goes along with a lot of it.

It's a complex century historically. If you read anything about the Plague (John Kelly's The Great Mortality is a fabulous start), you start to understand just how morally complex and difficult a time it was - but at the same time, holy shit, these people lived through a period where off and on for decades a chunk of hte population would drop dead with the various outbreaks of plague. Just to live and thrive in this era was such a huge thing. There's no wonder that so much art and creativity springs from the era, since people took risks honestly knowing life was precious almost as it never had been before.

There was plenty of people-made ugliness, from religious fundamentalism and hysteria to brutal war and all the accompanying misery, with a refining of the notion of professional companies of soldiers for hire. But at the same time, art, music, literature, design - the creativity of the human mind defied the bleakness of the existence.

The people of the 14th century seem to me to have attempted to a great extent to risk learning what it was like to be fully human - because they understood better even than those who came before them how fragile and ephemeral life could be.

[Charlotte J]

I came for the pretty clothes and stuck around for the Lollards.

That is to say, I loved the lines of the clothes, and figured they'd look good on me, but without having the go through the intensity of corsetry (which I'm now doing for the very first time, oddly enough). But the history and events of the century are pretty fascinating, and always felt to me like the last of the "middle ages" before things started getting renaissancy. How's that for technical and scholarly?

[Tailoress]

I love the material culture aesthetics of most of the 14thc. I started out exploring the feminine clothing and ended up on the male, martial side of things, clothing-wise. There is something about the meeting of fabric and metal in the 14th century that simply fascinates me and I don't see that ending any time soon.

I recently read The Last Duel by Eric Jager and was once again struck by the dramatic romance of the period. Also, I visited Paris and Chartres this summer and made a point of visiting Vincennes (easy, really, it was at the end of the block where I was staying), where Charles V spent some of his time as king of France in the 1370s. I was transported. It was a magical experience for me. It confirmed for me that there is something about late 14thc France that speaks to my soul. I can't yet figure it out beyond that. I know that I want to learn more about Charles V's reign and the 100 Years War in general. Consuming more of the history will only strengthen my attraction, I suspect.

[Kenwrec Wulfe]

I love the material culture aesthetics of most of the 14thc. I started out exploring the feminine clothing and ended up on the male, martial side of things, clothing-wise. There is something about the meeting of fabric and metal in the 14th century that simply fascinates me and I don't see that ending any time soon.

I recently read The Last Duel by Eric Jager and was once again struck by the dramatic romance of the period. Also, I visited Paris and Chartres this summer and made a point of visiting Vincennes (easy, really, it was at the end of the block where I was staying), where Charles V spent some of his time as king of France in the 1370s. I was transported. It was a magical experience for me. It confirmed for me that there is something about late 14thc France that speaks to my soul. I can't yet figure it out beyond that. I know that I want to learn more about Charles V's reign and the 100 Years War in general. Consuming more of the history will only strengthen my attraction, I suspect.

That is just sexy....

[Gaston de Clermont]

Thanks, Kenwrec. I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt like that.