Total newbie

[Tunanator]

First off let me start by saying what a neat site.
I have come across a full suit of armor that is Spanish and have had two individuals tell me it is authentic and two tell me reproduction. I currently have it up on ebay under tunanator_lb but want to take one piece and take very detailed pictures and post here so you guys can tell me what I really have....
I collect old swords and antiques so not going into this totally ignorant....

Appears to be all hand made rivets and hammered metal
breastplate is layered and functional, suit was made to be worn, fully articulated and functional.
I see no welds nor missing rivets and all parts move as they should
weighs about 60lbs
could hit breastplate full on with hammer and would bounce....no I did not try this, just that is how well made the metal is. Appears to have been cleaned sometime in the past
covered on the inside with what I was told by a collector to be whale oil???????
Some parts or lots were brassed at one time..the guantlets, knees are evident.

The collector tells me it is authentic but the sword I got with it tell me it is victorian.....so is the sword tied to this armor or added later.... or what......please help

[Sean Powell]

This one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Antiqu ... 4ab0610354

I'm not feeling confident in its authenticity. Certain things jump out as 'not quite right'. Take the gauntlets. The leather that holds the finger scales tends to rot away easily and they get lost. You have all of the fingers and all of the plates. Some might be replacements... or they all could be. The shaping of the knuckle rider is very flat, as if just bent from sheet-metal but deep shaping of this piece is almost essential for protection while holding a weapon. At the wrist flare, the uniformly even depression that comes back into a rolled cuff of uniform size almost screams modern rolling jenny.

I'd like to see the interior side of the elbow but the cop portion appears to be a simple cone lacking any convexity and I can't think of any elbow wind with that scalloped edge and heavy rivet-head style decoration.

Likewise there is a ruffled edge on the pauldrons that I don't ever recall seeing on an extant piece.

On the back-plate where it meets the waist there is something that looks like a flared edge and a weld to me but I can't be certain.

Finally, I seriously doubt that the visor was ever intended to go with that helm body. The face opening has a rolled edge which is entirely unnecessary and problematic to fit of the visor has to fit over it. And the top edge does not mesh well with the crest of the helm and the bottom edge doesn't look like it was ever intended to mesh evenly.

Please note. I'm an engineer and hobbyist when it comes to armor, not an expert. My focus of research is mid 15th cent Brugundian, not 16th or 17th cent Spanish so I'm quite potentially talking out of my ass. I just don't feel confident. The man you want to check with is Wade Allen. His username is WCAllen and his personal website is http://allenantiques.com/ . He posts here on occasion especially about collecting or giving advice based on analysis of known extant pieces in his collection. If anyone can give you a good evaluation of the suit its him.

Luck!
Sean

[Tunanator]

Thanks Sean...Start with the helmet because the easiest...Here are some close ups but you nailed it on the visor, you can see a modern screw holding the visor in place....but the actual helmet looks real. No welds just some black tary buildup...can scrape off. The helmet had been brassed in the past...still see spots of it here and there.

[Thomas Powers]

That looks *exactly* like a reproduction I bought in Spain in the early 1980's in a junk shop---the earlier the repro's the better the metal work in my experience with some victorian work even being done in real wrought iron.

If I had to make a judgment call I would carefully examine the metal looking for real wrought iron "tells" as modern steel dates only to the 1850's at earliest and so the real stuff would have been made with real wrought iron.

If I had to bet US$100 right now I would bet reproduction and I would never assume that a sword would be tied to a suit of armour as in general they were quite separate as several different swords might be owned by someone who had a nice set of plate armour (sort of like I wouldn't date a car by what I found loose in the trunk...)

[Mac]

Thomas,

Have a look at the catalog picture I posted here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=141654 It leaves no real doubt about this armor. The one in the picture is essentially identical to the one Tunanator has.

Mac

[Tunanator]

Really appreciate that link....glad I did not spend much but still a really neat set of armor.