New tool: Horizontal/Vertical Raising Stake

[Halberds]

This is the prototype of an idea I have been kicking around.



It's a raising stake designed to be used horizontal or vertical.



What do you metal pounders think?
I'll put it on the classifides auction if you think it's viable.

Hal

[Benedek]

You never cease to amaze.

I think it's a brilliantly clever tool.

[Koops]

Gotta have one...

[Ckanite]

If I could I would buy that in a heart beat!! that's perfect for the kinds of stuff I do!!

[Armourkris]

looks brilliant to me, out of curiosity, is that bend made by welding 2 cut sections of bar stock together, or was it done with a bending machine?

[Halberds]

Thanks guys.

Armourkris,
The bend is made by cutting it at 20° and welding it back together.
I do not have a forge or rosebud torch for a heat bend.

Hal

[The Iron Dwarf]

I would do the bend in a press, though the shanks on my tools are only 3/4" square the press hardly notices them and I can bend 2 at a time it will also do 1" square easily even cold

edited to add piccy

[Halberds]

My press is a small 10 ton, I don't think it will bend my 1" bar cold.
I could give it a try though.

I have seen box tubing used for stake holders.
It always looked a little on the wimpy side to me.
However, I used box tubing on the flute-o-matic for the sliding piece socket.

I placed my new raising stake over on the classifides if you are intrested.

I have been thinking of a treadle hammer using the ball, doughnut and my sword spring steel.

Ever make anything like that Iron Dwarf?

[Cap'n Atli]

No, no! Stakes MUST be vertical, even if you have to perch precariously upon a stool to use them.

Folks MUST suffer for art!

Your innovation is a dangerous trend, Sir, and should be suppressed.

[Thomas Powers]

Atli is confusing raising on a stake with burning at the stake,.....again.

Considering that a heat source could just be a pile of charcoal and a blow dryer and you could do several at a time I think you should look into doing it *hot*! Set a stout post vise up with the jaws open, heat the stock and slip a pipe over the cold end up to where you want the curve to start, set it in the postvise an hunker down on the cheater. Repeat till you have half a dozen or more. Use leftover charcoal to cook lunch over.

[The Iron Dwarf]

have tried a donut and ball on my press ( the donut was 2" thick forges steel ) to dish some 1/4" discs cold, it worked allright.

as to Thomas Powers idea of a pile of charcoal and a blow dryer to burn several people at the stake at the same time horizontally I think you will need a very large pile of charcoal

[sha-ul]

I do not have a forge or rosebud torch for a heat bend.

Sounds like a challenge to me.

Have you though about a brake drum& a gutted hair dryer, hooked up to a dimmer?
Could be made to break down for stowing when not in use.

[Halberds]

Yes, I do have a break drum forge but I can not tolerate the smoke due to asthma.

I have been wanting a big oxy/acetylene rig for some time now.

[Cap'n Atli]

I've done bending in a wood stove at 3/4 vent (many years ago). However, the easiest/simplest method would be to hunt down an amenable local blacksmith and ask how much to do the bend(s) to your specs on X number of bars. This is basic bread and butter work at a forge.

If it saves you time and trouble, it could be worth spending a little money on.

[Thomas Powers]

Weedburner, propane, stack of firebricks, done! (soft firebricks will use less gas but are more fragile If I was doing it this way I would start with a steel table--- put a layer of hard firebrick down and stack soft fire brick atop it to make a forge, have the weed burner coming in from the side (soft firebrick are easy to cut!)

Also many people with breathing problems that can't use coal can use real chunk charcoal---fully charred so no smoke! As that was the only fuel used by smiths till the high/late middle ages (Gies & Gies Cathedral Forge and Waterwheel) is should work for you too.

[Eyvandr]

Thats a great looking stake Hal. How much one of those gonna cost us?

[The Iron Dwarf]

depends on how much you bid in the auction that is running

[schreiber]

No, no! Stakes MUST be vertical, even if you have to perch precariously upon a stool to use them.

Folks MUST suffer for art!

Well, I'll take this and run with it for a bit of constructive criticism... nothing in the shop pisses me off more than having to do this. My stakes are all different heights and if I'm doing something for a while, like planishing, I have that epiphany about half way through it where my neck gets all sore, and "dammit, it's too high and I'm chicken-wingin' again", followed by finding something to stand on. When it's too low, I get pissed a lot quicker because my lats are trying to suspend my entire upper body leaning over and swinging a hammer.

I don't know if it's possible to make it the same height both ways and maintain your second support without it getting in the way when it's vertical, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Halberds]

Well Schreiber that is certainly food for thought.
Perhaps a tool holder that hung off the table with another socket in it.

I appreciate the feed back, designing from a users view is always best.

Hal

PS: As to cost... I would like to get at least $135.00 for it.

[Bender]

My 20 ton h frame press and bending dies handle that sort of bend. Top die is a two by five inch chunk of solid bar welded to a socket with a set screw to hold it on. Bottom die is two of the same-held together by two quarter by one inch straps on the ends. O-O

Can anyone tell me the taper per inch and top thickness of a standard roper Whitney sheet metal stake? I need to build a hot working horse on wheels for my shop soon.

[Sean Powell]

Hal,

What I think all of these wonderful people with forges and multi-ton presses are trying to tell you is that they want to bend the shanks for you. I'm certain that someone could put 20' of bent 1" square-stock in a flat-rate box if the size was right. You just gotta determine if the cost for buying pre-bent is better then the cost of labor for cutting and material-cost for re-welding.

I bet you have seen at least as many fab-shops as I have go under when they buy tools they really only need to use once and have no ROI.

On the design side, why the double-leg in the horizontal position and is there any risk of downward strikes on the ball pivoting on the close leg and lifting at the rear leg? Seems like an odd-way to support a cantiliever load. If nothing else it makes for inefficient energy transfer.

Too bad you don't use tube-stock for your holder bases. Then you could mount a horizontal tube next to the vertical and turn any straight stake into a horizontal stake even if it didn't have the dog-leg. Heck, I would think a stake held in a 45 deg holder is at least as useful as a horizontal stake with a 45 deg offset. You could have a base-plate, a 4" tall wall and 3 rectangles welded to it for multiple positions and get a lot of flexibility. A T-stake could be used horizontally to provide a sharp upward spike or the end of a flat t-stake could be ground as a creasing stake. A ball stake could go horizontal for working at lower heights. Lots of options.

Let me draw something up.

Sean

[The Iron Dwarf]

a stake plate with verticle, 45 deg and horizontal sounds good.
my normal stake plate already gives 8 different orientacions for tools in verticle, maybe I will try for more

[Halberds]

I have seen box tubing holders with multi positions.

This tool was a one off prototype to try an idea.
I doubt if any more will ever be made.
It was placed on the classifides to help recoup some cost.

As to having my stakes farmed out to be bent, it's not necessary. as I only make one or two a year as it is.
However... I do appreciate the hives concern and comments.

Hal

[Halberds]

Hal,

On the design side, why the double-leg in the horizontal position and is there any risk of downward strikes on the ball pivoting on the close leg and lifting at the rear leg? Seems like an odd-way to support a cantilever load. If nothing else it makes for inefficient energy transfer.
Let me draw something up
Sean

It is an odd way of supporting a ball sticking off the bench... I must agree.
However... it does not lift/hammer out, as the geometry forces it back as well.
Yes... it wiggles around a small bit, but that is how I achieve my organic look to the armour.

Hal

PS: I still have the big shallow dish you sent me.
PitBull was looking at it, but I don't think it is right for him.

[Halberds]

Can anyone tell me the taper per inch and top thickness of a standard roper Whitney sheet metal stake? I need to build a hot working horse on wheels for my shop soon.

I have asked this question many times over on different forums.
I have asked for the taper in inches" or degrees°?
No one has a good answer so far.

I bought some off EBay just to measure the taper.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/h ... older2.jpg

I have decided to not do these type of tools.
This is an early attempt at a welded taper stake:



I really don't like making these.
They never fit...

Hal