Which wood for a sheild?

[ScottishRiteBill]

I am looking at building a set of 1459 German sheilds used in combat. What I am trying to figure out what type of wood should I go with? I was think ply wood should work as they will be used with rapiers, against each other, and a "club" mace like implement. To give people an idea the sheilds will stand a little shorter of a man hunched over with a rod running from top to bottom to be used as grip and a quarter staff on crack.

[Blackoak]

Pine (1/2") should be more than adequate for rapier.

[Sean Powell]

I presume from your description of size and handle shape you mean something like a Tallhoffer deuling shield?

Are you going for authenticity, sport performance or durability?

I think Lindenwood has been quoted for shields before and I've been told that isn't too dissimilar from american poplar which would make a stronger shield then pine but not add as much weight as say maple or oak.

For sport performance: Aluminum.

For durability: Aluminum as well but a good cabinet grade plywood is a decent choice. Birch seems to be the most comonly available. For the handle Ash or Hickory seem to be a common choice for tool handles for all the same reasons so they are good choices.

[ScottishRiteBill]

>Blackoak,
I was thinking of using Pin for the back support rob that you would hold, I did not want to make the shield too heavy to use in a safe way. 1/2 inch of pin maybe a little too wide to use but I will look into pin tho.

>Sean Powell
You got it I am thinking of the one and only Talhoffer Dueling Shield. I don't know why but I have a thing for this shield, and from what I can find not too many people do use this kind of combat style. I do need to get my hands on a SCA marshell book to see if I can even do this before I go too crazy. I would have to make some mods to the combat style, such as no pummeling the other guy with the shield (too much). With the shield I am thinking more of durability with them as I am sure it will be a hard sale to get someone willing to work on this with me. I am hoping to work on a manuel for the use of this style of dueling combat for the use with in public showing and tournaments if the crown and the powers that be let me do it. I did think of a ply wood style to make it look more true to form and make it easier for others to build if they wish. If I was to do it in wood tho I would give it a raw hide covering along the side edges to make a little more safer to use. I really don't want to see someone get hurt from a move done with the shield, but like any thing else you can get hurt while crossing the street.

[Sean Powell]

When I considered making a Talhoffer shield (there are actually several, some with pointed ends, some with forked points and some with points and sythe hooks) I was confounded by the weight issue. As it is primarily a 2-handed weapon it should be considered a pole-arm with a tip and butt-spike but with a 'fancy handle'. Therefore the 'shield' portion must conform to the 1.25" minimum edge as it is likely to contact an opponent. We can even go so far as to say that the 48"x18" hand protection (honestly Mr. Marshal, its just a very big tsuba turned sideways!) should not be made of metal or a material likely to splinter. When you find a solution to that the weapon excedes a reasonable weight and anything moving fast enough to get a thrust in will likely land with a hell of a lot of force.

Maybe for fencing equipment it will be different?

If you are GOOD with hand-tools you can hand-plane 1 by something pine planks so they are thinner on the outside edge which will take out a chunk of the weight. Gluing down fabric will help stiffen it back up. It might be a good idea to prototype the shield in pine before moving to poplar or plywood.

Luck!
Sean

[Oddvarr]

What about doing a "frame" in plywood, having a rattan pole run down the center, then covering the frame in leather? Slim down the width dimension a bit so it tapers down to 8" on either end.

Or cut out large lightening relief holes, with a circular doorknob hole saw thingy, down the middle on both sides of the rattan pole. Taper it down as above, but fill in the holes with camp pad foam, then cover in fabric or leather. The edges would probably have to be beefed up to 1 1/4" so they would not pass through bar-grills accidently.

Still not sure it would come in under weight though.

Good luck,

Oddvarr

[ScottishRiteBill]

The way the shields are used is shown here on this youtube link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsn45dtDxok . right now I going to hold off since I have been told its not the way to use a shield. Tho I maybe explaining it wrong, either way I I was thinking of using raw hide to run along the sides to limit the chances of slices. As you can see it is not used at a rattening shield, there are images that do show it being used as a hand over swing but we all can say that is too dangerous to do. I may build one any way to just to say I made it for the fun of it, but truth be told if it can't be used safely then there is no point. Still it is something that I am going to do more reading looking up on, it is such an odd thing that I still want to know about it.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

Bill,
Those are German duelling shields used only for judicial duels in Swabia and some other medieval German states. I think they were mainly used by commoners, who wore no armour and had clubs for weapons. The size and construction of the shields was specified by law, as was how the combatants could be armed. Some of the German fighting manuals have a chapter or two about how to use them, but they aren't very specific on how to do so. The WMA folks over at www.swordforum.com have done some experimenting with them, IIRC.

[boomer]

I am not sure this would work in SCA combat, but it sounds like a blast. I do believe SCA rules state that shields can not be used to strike your opponent in anyway (but I could be wrong)

[Kel Rekuta]

1 Numerous people in the HEMA community have build and experimented at length with dueling shields. No one died nor were any injured as they were used with control and not the reckless abandon one might expect.

2 Commoners dueled with clubs in some regions and with longswords in others as required by local convention. None were armoured except by a tightly fitted garment to frustrate grappling.

3 SCAdians could enjoy experimenting with dueling shields under special dispensation from the marshallate if they had the forethought to present them as specialized pole weapons and not shields. They are very clearly offensive tools used in many ways like a poll axe should be. But then that would be a recreation of historical combat and falls outside the conventions of SCA combat.

If you make dueling shields, there must be at least two or its impossible to train effectively. Just don't make them too heavy to use. Half inch plywood is too heavy, use 3/8" and cover it with canvas or preferably rawhide. It will last a few fights which is more than the historical ones were ever expected to.

[Sir Greggie]

I am not sure this would work in SCA combat, but it sounds like a blast. I do believe SCA rules state that shields can not be used to strike your opponent in anyway (but I could be wrong)

You can use shields offensivlly, but they must meet weapon standards. Most people do not want to deal with trying to make sure a shield meets all of those different ryules. Plus a shield like this would wiegh a lot.
Gregory

[Brann mac Finnchad]

You could always present it as a non-competitive demonstration. Such things come under arts and sciences as per this document.
http://www.sca.org/officers/arts/AandS_martial_public_proposal.pdf