On pointing legs to an arming cotte

[Athanaric]

Alright I have spent over an hour using the search function to no avail...I have learned how to create the point, what methods and materials to use ect...

What I want however is a friggen picture of someone in their arming cotte with their legs pointed to the damn thing. The only one I have found is a super close fitting vest type thing...

Let me be more clear...I have an Icefalcon arming cotte and I want to point my legs to it...anybody have pics of this particular setup?

Thanks

[Chris Gilman]

I’m sorry I don’t have an image for you, but an important aspect to pointing your legs to an arming coat is proper tailoring. You want to make sure the waist is tight (and I mean tight) and the shoulders are loose. If the waist is not tight, your leg defenses will pull the arming coat down, so the additional weight rests on your shoulders. It will also improve your silhouette. This important aspect of tailoring is overlooked by many. Depending on your period the waist should be either at the lower rib or just above you hip bone.

[Athanaric]

Thank you Chris, I will probably have the lady wife do a little tailering of the cotte...it is an off the shelf afair that fits me decently but not what I would call a custom fit by any stretch.

A followup question then, as I am an early period guy for the most part that is crashing the good ol 14th what should the fit be for the earlier side of the 14th?

Thanks

[Chris Gilman]

Look at effigies of your "period and place". These will give you a good idea of how you garment should be shaped. You will notice that it is not just about the location of the waist, but how long it is and whether the upper body is bigger than the lower or the same.

[randyshipp]

This guy may or may not have pronounced enough hips to hold up his leg harness, but it's a garment that looks something like this.

[Steve S.]

The key to pointing to a garment is that that garment should fit you like a glove. It should be like a second skin.

In my last foray into SCA combat I set out first to make a well-tailored suit of armor. Whatever else I achieved I achieved that. It was the first time I ever wore armour where I felt like I was not fighting the armour. Well-fitting armour is essential and is much trickier than you might expect.

Well-fitting foundation garments are crucial to good armour, at least in the 14th century and beyond. Essentially, you don a second layer of skin that has tie points on it, so that your well-fitting pieces of steel can be tied to your second skin and not move except where they are articulated. If your armour is "oversized" to make it work for you, or if it flops around on you, it doesn't fit right.

Here are some pictures of the first one I made:

http://fortharm.ipower.com/temp/arming%20coat%201.jpg
http://fortharm.ipower.com/temp/arming%20coat%202.jpg
http://fortharm.ipower.com/temp/arming%20coat%203.jpg

In these pictures you can also see a prototype "pourpoint vest" that I was trying out. I found it worked great but no one could seem to document this sort of garment to the 14th century so I put leather tabs on the inside of the arming coat and pointed to it instead. It worked nearly as well.

I say "nearly" because I did not quite get the arms tailored quite right so there was a very slight restriction of movement of my arms because of the leg armor pulling the arming coat down. Properly tailored, there should be no impact of the garment on the movement of the arms. This is why the sleeves are inset as they are. The key is a very very close-fitting garment.

Here is a shot of the pourpoint by itself:

http://fortharm.ipower.com/temp/pourpoint1.jpg

As an aside, I still find the pourpoint the most comfortable way to support hose. Tying them to my braies has never worked well for me - it just pulls my braies down. I suspect this is because I am fat - my thighs are so heavily tapered that the hose are constantly being forced down the leg instead of just hanging there nicely as they would on normal shaped legs:

http://fortharm.ipower.com/temp/side.jpg

Steve

[Athanaric]

That is close to what I am working with, thank you Randy.

[Athanaric]

Steve, if possible do you have a pic inside of your arming cotte so I can see the attachment point? That is what I am looking for thank you.

[Steve S.]

I dug around but could not find one stored on my web site.

I will take a picture tonight when I get home.

But all I did was take some tabs of leather and punch two holes in one end for the cord for the "point", and I stitched in a square pattern and then an X pattern around the other end of the tab to attach it to the garment. The leather tabs are perhaps 2" wide and 4" long. There are three per leg. The center tab is located directly over the pivot point of your hip, with one closer to the front of the leg, and one closer to the butt.

Steve

[Athanaric]

Perfect thank you Steve. There is no problem with the top of the leg armour pulling away from the point being on the inside of the cotte?

[Steve S.]

There is no problem with the top of the leg armour pulling away from the point being on the inside of the cotte?

None at all. The coat is buttoned down the front and is very form-fitting all the way to about the crotch - at least as low as where the points are. The points cannot move away from the body as they are bound to it by the coat. The coat is a second skin.

Steve

[Brann mac Finnchad]

How low do you have it pointed? I was thinking just below the pelvic bone.

I'm working on one of these too.

[Steve S.]

I point directly where the leg bends, since this is where you want the articulation to happen.

Steve

[Guy Dawkins]

Here are some of me.
Note that I point each leg in two locations.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 6845_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 5297_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 2534_n.jpg

[Chris Gilman]

The waist should be much tighter.

[Guy Dawkins]

It gets that way from time to time. It is actually snug through the hips and since that is where the weight is carried it works fine.

[Brann mac Finnchad]

Excellent, that helps a bunch.

[Steve S.]

Sorry I did not get to mine last night - I had to take my mother to the Tennessee Valley Civil War Round Table lecture. I'll do it this weekend.

Mine is similar in arrangement to guy's except since my coat is longer, I could not point to the outside of the coat.

Steve

[jarlragnar]

The waist should be much tighter.

There's a reason these dudes all look wasp waisted and pigeon chested.

[Brann mac Finnchad]

Because they're all skinny?

[Steve S.]

Here are pictures of my arming coat.

http://imgur.com/a/xXPT0

Note that I leave the coat just like this with the legs pointed in place prior to donning them.

I put the legs on first, then put my arms into the coat. In this way I can don the armour without help. At least this part of it.

Steve

[Athanaric]

Nice, exactly what I wanted to see, thank you Steve!!