Rawhide

[nkante]

I am about to get a really cheap cow, hair-on, rawhide and I am trying to come up with some ideas on what to do with it before I have it. I don't want a sack of dead skin sitting around stinking up the joint while I figure out what to do with it. I haven't seen it, so I don't know how thick it is. The one project I have in mind is a cover for my hockey gloves.

[Halberds]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ndInEV3CS4

I think Zetheros had a hell of a time with a buffalo rawhide skin.
I bet if you ask him he won't to that again.

Best of luck on your quest.

[losthelm]

I would start by curring the hide with salt.
It won't tan the hide just pull excess moisture so it won't rot from looking at it.
Rawhide is very stiff and will change if it gets wet,
Works well for drum heads and tanning into something more useful. Makeing vellum and braintanning are fairly easy.

[CT03]

you can make shields, scabbards, knife sheaths, containers. If properly treated you can use it like a primitive form of plastic... though it is a bit nasty to work with... If you get it completely raw from the knacker you will need to wash it a few times in NON tap water (which has chlorine in it) you then will need to stretch it on a frame (needs to be very sturdy) until it is almost dry at which point you will need to scrape it smooth using something that is roundish and not quite sharp like a round furniture scraper or a large washer or similar item. Then you let it dry... once completely dry it will have shrunk quite a bit and will be really stiff but you can now wet it and form it to shape and let it dry again.

[Kel Rekuta]

Some things aren't worth the price even free. Do you know how to treat the green hide? What is your time worth? Do you have big barrels to work the hide and know what chemicals you need and how to use them?

I wouldn't wish that project on my worst enemy. Green hides are nasty things even in a commercial environment.

[Russ Mitchell]

nkante, I second Kel here. Do NOT accept this hide unless you are going the same route I did, and want to add "tanner" to your list of zombie-holocaust emergency skills. Most people do not appreciate the smell of cadaverene, nor the profusion of excited flies who will instantly go into "it's party time!" mode as soon as this thing's exposed to the air. If you have more than an acre, or want to develop some skills as a tanner and all that, I'm sure Kel and I could help you out, but it's not something to enter into lightly.

[Thomas Powers]

Australian Traditional Bush Crafts (ISBN: 0805205608 / 0-8052-0560-8)
Ron Edwards has some info on making things from dried rawhide. Note that most places with a tradition of using raw hide tend to be Hot and Dry

[Russ Mitchell]

oooo, good reference, I'll have to look that up. I still get tons of mileage out of some books I had describing various buttons and such made from it it's wonderful stuff if treated right.

[hivemind]

Third vote here for "if this is your first time, don't bother". Working with untanned hides is smelly, nasty, and expensive. It will ruin your clothes and... just... blech. Not worth it.

[nkante]

This is actually my second time working hide. I did alot of experimenting on that one. First I salted it, then I soaked it in vinigar. I don't know if the vinigar did anything, but in my mind the pickling helped preserve it. Then I covered it in salt again as I laid it out to dry. After it dried I cut out the shape, re-wet it to shape it, then I baked it in a rigged brick oven. My rig lasted for two Penssics. It rained almost all everyday that last Penssic so it lost most of its rigidity. I think a scabard will be my second project.

[Russ Mitchell]

In that case, fire away and take pics!!

[Halberds]

I agree with the pics for the hive.

I was going to suggest a big rawhide doggy bone for your gaunts.
Just soak in water until it is soft enough to work with.
Cut pattern with big tin snips or a sharp knife.
Shape and let dry.
PS: Reshape often during the natural drying time.
Do not put it in the oven.

Chupa has a tanning kit and he wants to do a goat hide.
His raccoon with hair came out fine.
He says the only way he is getting through that nasty smell and mess... is to eat the fucker.

He got a new smoker for his birthday and the christening pork shoulder was deluxe.

Happy nasty hide handiling.

Hal

[Russ Mitchell]

Hal: if he's got a smoker, he can use it to smoke-tan his hides. Clean it with a powerwasher, smoke it (being very careful on the temp controls), then hot-stuff it with lard or some other permanent oil. If I had a real smoker, it's how I'd do ALL my smaller skins.

[Kel Rekuta]

He says the only way he is getting through that nasty smell and mess... is to eat the fucker.

Hal

Yup. Its the only thing to do after visiting an abattoir or tannery. Mow down on a whacking great hunk of charred flesh. Our altitude on the food chain is the one redeeming facet to our use of meat by products. Use the whole thing!! Just remember the First Nations interpretation of vegetarian is bad hunter.

[Thomas Powers]

I glanced at the Australian traditional Bush Crafts again. They mention taking a large buggy tyre---the wrought iron hoop---and tying a fresh hide to that to dry it stretched and throwing lots of salt on it.

They are mainly focused on plaiting whips and ropes from rawhide, plus other items too.

[Ironbadger]

Uhhh....
As someone who grew up in a taxidermy shop, and dealt with hides every day for much of my life...
Don't wash it if the weather is warm.
Water and green hides do NOT mix.

IE- It will start to rot.
Like, right away.

Stretch it out flesh side up and bury it in salt.
Mill run feed salt from the feed store is the best grade and the cheapest way to get what you need.

Salt it so heavily you can't see any part of the hide.
Its impossible to use too much..easy to use too little.
We usually buried hides a quarter inch to a half inch deep in salt.

Leave it for a day, and then hang it up in the shade to let the remaining water drain out of it.

Give it a few hours, or all night if its in a cool place, and flesh it.

When its fleshed, then you can decide what to do next- either rawhiding, or tanning.

All the salt actually does is draw moisture out of the hide, retarding the process of decay, so further treatment is necessary.

I have not made rawhide from cowhide, so I have no useful advice on that.
(My only experience with rawhiding was fleshing and pegging a rattlesnake hide in the sun- after soaking it in a strong mixture of salt and alum in water for several days, following my grandfather's instructions.)
I fleshed hides for both hair on and leather in the family business.
(It was my main job in the shop for years....I DON'T miss it!)

Tanning is indeed the smelliest, dirtiest job I have ever done, and every time someone asks me why I didn't become a taxidermist, I just point out what handling the green or raw hides is like.

No thanks.
I served my time in hell.

-Badger-

[Russ Mitchell]

I salt heavily, wait, flesh with a power washer, and then put in the tanning agent in the shade while it's drying... of course, methods vary. But I agree, Badger: I wouldn't touch these things if I were still fleshing by hand -- sure as hell not in Texas.

[Ironbadger]

If that method works for you....No argument.
I was taught very traditional methods by my grandfather in his 80s.

Which means you did things his way... Or else.

He repeatedly drummed the mantra that water was the enemy of meat and hides into my skull..But this had a lot to do with all the idiots who brought in raw hides that had been kept in a sealed plastic bag in hot weather, for days.
And they'd usually washed them before putting them in the bag...

And I had to clean up the rotting mess.
Usually off of the shop floor.

So I tend to warn folks not to use water if it can be avoided.

-Badger-

I salt heavily, wait, flesh with a power washer, and then put in the tanning agent in the shade while it's drying... of course, methods vary. But I agree, Badger: I wouldn't touch these things if I were still fleshing by hand -- sure as hell not in Texas.

[Kelby]

If there is still a lot of meat on it, you should flesh that off before you salt it down in the manner described by Ironbadger. If there is too much meat, the salt will not be able to lock the hair follicles.

If you are doing hair-off it's still a good idea to flesh it down good before salting because 1) it is easier to do while still fresh 2) you will get a more even drying once you salt it.

Definitely keep it out of direct sunlight.

[Ironbadger]

There shouldn't be much meat left on it once skinned- if there is, someone was really sloppy.

We didn't bother removing meat scraps before salting- heavy enough salt will take care of small bits clinging to the hide, and they all came off the same during fleshing.
Some meat bits will not come off easily before salting. In such case, leave them and salt away- they'll peel off with the fat and such after salting down for a day.


I should mention that theres almost always some really tough scraps of meat that cling to a hide- these are generally really thin and hard to grab because they are gooshy- really hard to remove when fresh, and trying too hard to get them off before salting usually results in skinning cuts in the hide.
Salting them down will firm them up and loosen their grip on the hide, so they peel off without much work. This will not damage the hair follicles, as we did this routinely with hair on as well as hides intended for leather.

Fleshing after salting is actually easier, since everything turns rubbery and peels right off.
Heavy salting stabilizes a hide, and the salt penetrates the entire hide and sucks moisture up.
You still have to hang it to drain before fleshing though...The hide is much lighter after draining, and a lot easier to handle.

-Badger-

If there is still a lot of meat on it, you should flesh that off before you salt it down in the manner described by Ironbadger. If there is too much meat, the salt will not be able to lock the hair follicles.

If you are doing hair-off it's still a good idea to flesh it down good before salting because 1) it is easier to do while still fresh 2) you will get a more even drying once you salt it.

Definitely keep it out of direct sunlight.

[Kelby]

Agreed, Ironbadger.

I'm just saying if the person who skins the cow doesn't do a very good job there could still be huge steaks attached to the inside of the skin. If so, you need to flesh those off before salting.

[Ironbadger]

Ah yes.
Definitely agreed.

I thought you meant someone should pull ALL the flesh off before salting- and thats how skinning cuts happen and ruin hides.
Common mistake of the inexperienced, so I felt I should clarify.
Especially since I actually made that mistake when I was 12, helping my grandfather..

Oh, you should have heard the cussing!

I only made one skinning cut, and it was a tiny one- but he was PISSED!

Ah, memories.

Oh- Something I found last night and thought I'd share
One of my grandfather's old flyers, probably printed about 1965.

He lived and died before the internet, so aside from some mentions in old newspaper articles about bigfoot...Al Corbett is now mostly forgotten.
(Al Corbett and Bob Titmus, his partner...Weird article if you choose to look it up- they were the first known to cast a bigfoot print in plaster in the 50s.)

The original flyer is printed in 9 1/2 X 11 1/12 inch brown cardstock, so I had to trim it to fit the scanner bed.
(I have about 9 copies, so sacrificing one for archiving is not so bad.)

This may be the only examples of his work you'll ever see.



-Badger-

Agreed, Ironbadger.

I'm just saying if the person who skins the cow doesn't do a very good job there could still be huge steaks attached to the inside of the skin. If so, you need to flesh those off before salting.

[Thomas Powers]

So did he "tan your hide" when you messed up?

When I did small animal tawing---salt and alum, fur on, it was a "winter only" craft.

[Ironbadger]

While I realize that is a joke...
I prefer not to comment.

Theres a reason I moved away from my family in the late 80s.

-Badger-

So did he "tan your hide" when you messed up?

When I did small animal tawing---salt and alum, fur on, it was a "winter only" craft.

[nkante]

Thanks for all the info. Alot of the experiments I did on the first hide are starting to come back. When I got the first one it was stacked and salted. I took it to the self-car wash to spray it down (You get some funny looks hosing down a cow skin in Philly). That took care of most of the 'crap' on the hair side and a good amount of blood and fat from the flesh side. I then laid it out and did a scraping to get the big hunks of flesh. Then I salted it. I guess it was more of a brine since I would soak the salt in vinegar and let it air dry before adding more salt and vinegar. I did this to bothsides. At this point I took a torch to the flesh side. The hide started to draw up like a 'shrinky-dink', so I had to be careful to keep it even. This cleaned up the messy fat but didn't totally remove the flesh layer since I needed more protection than the skin layer. The flame process 'plasticized' the flesh. But it was still hydrated at this point. I cut out my pattern then baked it in the charcoal brick oven I rigged (My daughter's grand mother wondered who had ribs on the grill in the middle of the winter). When it was done, it was hard as a rock.

[nkante]

I just got the hide. It was pretty clean so I shouldn't have too much defleshing to do. I didn't take a pic of the hair side, but it almost all white. I am thinking about making my breastplate then having it airbrushed to look like leopard hide. I am hoping that the white hair will be a good canvas. My neighbors are slowly realizing that I aint quite right. You should have seen me in the yard with a bloody tank-top scraping meat. The things you see in the 'hood.

[Benedek]

I think it would look spectacular as a tradition African hide shield. I've always wanted to see a WIP thread on that.