helmet documentation

[Nissan Maxima]

Can anyone point me to a medieval original, effigy or example in a painting or book of a helm like this one?

[Glaukos the Athenian]

I believe there is on in the Luttrell Psalter

http://www.threegoldbees.com/images/sto ... salter.jpg

[Nissan Maxima]

That looks more like a sugarloaf than my picture.

[Glaukos the Athenian]

http://armourandcastings.com/index.php? ... oductId=64

[Glaukos the Athenian]

The period would be the transitional from sugarloaf to bascinet... 1st quarter of the 14th century

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Ralph Lord Stanford 1347

http://www.gothiceye.com/popup.asp?Ref=KN036

[Nissan Maxima]

Ralph Lord Stanford 1347

http://www.gothiceye.com/popup.asp?Ref=KN036

Do you have a larger picture of this effigy?

[Glaukos the Athenian]

I have been looking since I posted it....

The problem is that you seem to have a bascinet with an unusual visor. The only period that would match would be this, so I am searching effigies and brasses.... let me see what I can do

[Glaukos the Athenian]

[Glaukos the Athenian]

[Glaukos the Athenian]

even bigger

http://www.themcs.org/armour/knights/20 ... 0%2079.jpg

[Nissan Maxima]

that's cool, but I am still hoping for something more like the helm in the pictures.

[Len Parker]

Some here http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=8668

[Konstantin the Red]

Search on "shovel face bascinet" -- seems legit, if a rare type.

[Galfrid atte grene]

This exact visor design looks like a fantasy to me.

Here is one sort of close: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/romance ... ey-264/50/ (concave bottom edges, continuous eyeslot, backpoint)
Note that it appears quite small - this is pretty standard for all nearly all raised visor depictions. The same visor drawn closed on a helm nearby is always the proper size in other examples.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=147413

I'll look for something closer when I get home, be sure and click on Len Parker's Russian link.

[Len Parker]

I'm still looking. It's the combination attached aventail with the straight cut upper and lower visor that's hard to match.
I did find some really interesting 14thc. visors
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=897
http://militum-xristi.flybb.ru/topic45.html The Gdansk visor is definitely unique, if that drawing is legit.

[Cet]

The closet source I can think of would be the Romance of Alexander MS Bodl 264- fol 10-7 has something similar. Good Hi Res pictures here.

http://image.ox.ac.uk/list?collection=bodleian

[Gregoire de Lyon]

There are visors depicted in the following that may be similar in shape?

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/ab-urbe ... -269/2137/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/ab-urbe ... -272/2149/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/ab-urbe ... -268/2125/

Also perhaps here?

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/histoir ... -a-16/167/

[RandallMoffett]

This type of helmet or ones like it are rather common during the first half of the 14th. Take a look at the Taymouth Hours, Yates-Thompson 13 at the BL. It is full of helmets just like this.

http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=28956

F. 12 is a good one to look at.

As far as aventails.... not usually this early though. To be honest I am not convinced this was common til the 2nd half of the 14th. I think well into the 1340s we see coifs under helmets fairly often, though by the 1330s we see the possibility of them.

There are a few things I would change if I were to use it but shape wise I'd say it is go till maybe 1360 for a Man at arms

RPM

[Glaukos the Athenian]

This type of helmet or ones like it are rather common during the first half of the 14th. Take a look at the Taymouth Hours, Yates-Thompson 13 at the BL. It is full of helmets just like this.

http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=28956

F. 12 is a good one to look at.

As far as aventails.... not usually this early though. To be honest I am not convinced this was common til the 2nd half of the 14th. I think well into the 1340s we see coifs under helmets fairly often, though by the 1330s we see the possibility of them.

There are a few things I would change if I were to use it but shape wise I'd say it is go till maybe 1360 for a Man at arms

RPM

This one looks good...

[RandallMoffett]

And this one-

http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=11693

These helmets appear very often. The Holkham as well has them. The 'shovel' face bascinet appears to be very much a part of martial culture in the first half of the 14th.

I think of the development more a mix of the great helm. It is moving toward much more developed or angular tops and at times having visors. I think the Sugarloaf is actually the link. It can be a full developed great helm with visor and conical, round or mid to 3/4 point back or we can look at it as a full proto-bascinet. In the Queen Mary Psalter there is little question that some of the helmets there are impossible to lodge firmly in either camp.

Queen Mary Psalter, c.1300-1315

http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=53961
http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=53770
http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=53892

Angular top Great Helm
http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=53747
http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=53946
http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=53777

More or less fully developed open face bascinet
http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminated ... llID=53925

There are likely scores, maybe dozens more but some things to look at.

RPM