Polypro is now SCA legal

[olaf haraldson]

Sir Stephen is writing up a "banned until further notice" announcement for the East right now.

all other kingdoms have rules against using polypro for weapons? if not then they are legal.

regards
logan

Hmm. Potential as axe or mace hafts right off?

It would make sense, which is why it isn't the case. Only legal as swords. And apparantly only in Milpitas and Atlantia.

[Duke Patrick O'Malley]

we tested them at my practice a couple of years ago. when i threw slower shots that landed close to the hilt (10" or so) folks were browning out. throwing really fast shots tended to cause a lot of flex and not feel right to the target (and vibrated like shit in my hand). every solid blow caused the rods to bend and hold that bend. 7 layers of strapping tape up and down the "edge" stopped that but caused blows that nobody liked (no flex). i think my wrist and elbow ae still tingling from it. not a fan.

regards
logan

If your sword was holding a bend after solid blows you where not using polypropylene.

In four years of testing the only consistent complaint we have had was that they do not hit as hard as rattan. That is why we tend to switch to rattan when it counts (crown).

Patrick, Caid

[Godric of Castlemont]

There is one fighter in my area from Caid, and he brought a poly sword up with him to a (non-official) practice one day. While the poly sword was "different", hit a little different, weighed a little different, moved a little different, I thought it was a good option for a non-rattan sword. I look forward to them being legal in the West.

[zippy]

@Godric from what I understand (and to reiterate what Logan said) unless your kingdom publishes rules to outlaw them, then they are legal.
Atenveldt only disallows siloflex in our current ruleset, so technically they are currently legal here. I don't really see them gaining any popularity out here, all the competitive fighters seem to dislike the vibration.

[dukelogan]

could be. i bought it from mcmasters, or whater its called, and the mds stated it was what i was emailed it was supposed to be. could have been a weird batch, could have been the terrible sc summer heat. but there certainly was a little bit of a curve after a hard blow.

regards
logan

we tested them at my practice a couple of years ago. when i threw slower shots that landed close to the hilt (10" or so) folks were browning out. throwing really fast shots tended to cause a lot of flex and not feel right to the target (and vibrated like shit in my hand). every solid blow caused the rods to bend and hold that bend. 7 layers of strapping tape up and down the "edge" stopped that but caused blows that nobody liked (no flex). i think my wrist and elbow ae still tingling from it. not a fan.

regards
logan

If your sword was holding a bend after solid blows you where not using polypropylene.

In four years of testing the only consistent complaint we have had was that they do not hit as hard as rattan. That is why we tend to switch to rattan when it counts (crown).

Patrick, Caid

[Tegan]

could be. i bought it from mcmasters, or whater its called, and the mds stated it was what i was emailed it was supposed to be. could have been a weird batch, could have been the terrible sc summer heat. but there certainly was a little bit of a curve after a hard blow.

regards
logan

we tested them at my practice a couple of years ago. when i threw slower shots that landed close to the hilt (10" or so) folks were browning out. throwing really fast shots tended to cause a lot of flex and not feel right to the target (and vibrated like shit in my hand). every solid blow caused the rods to bend and hold that bend. 7 layers of strapping tape up and down the "edge" stopped that but caused blows that nobody liked (no flex). i think my wrist and elbow ae still tingling from it. not a fan.

regards
logan

If your sword was holding a bend after solid blows you where not using polypropylene.

In four years of testing the only consistent complaint we have had was that they do not hit as hard as rattan. That is why we tend to switch to rattan when it counts (crown).

Patrick, Caid

Note to self: Logan throws "slow" shots that cause enough friction against the air to melt and deform polypro swords.



-Tegan

[Duchess Tessa]

These are currently NOT allowed in AEthelmearc. We are allowing some testing, to see what our fighters think of them and if they work for us.

So, until further notice.. NOT legal in AEthelmearc.

Tessa the Huntress
AEthelmearc KEM

[BdeB]

Mine has developed a slight curve after 18 months of use.

[dukelogan]

clearly you must learn how to throw shots that cause friction against the air to melt and deform polypro swords.



regards
logan

Mine has developed a slight curve after 18 months of use.

[Duke Patrick O'Malley]

Mine has developed a slight curve after 18 months of use.

Duke Sven's (Caid) has done the same over about the same time period. I have not seen it in mine probably due to different blow selection. I have one that is about 14 months old now, but I have generally broken them before they get that old.

Patrick, Caid

[B. Amos]

Mine has developed a very very slight curve, unoticable unless you sight down the shaft. that being said it is a crosshilt so I am probably giving both sides of the sword some use.

[Murdock]

Is it the material or the weight that is an issue?

Would routing a fuller in them (keeping 1 1/4 cross section) maybe help?

[BdeB]

Weight is an issue but the only size that was tested was the 1.25 for now. I know Corby put some cuts in his to cut down on the weight at one point.

[DarkApprentice]

Mine has developed a slight curve after 18 months of use.

Switch hands.

DA

[Hrolfr]

Is it the material or the weight that is an issue?

Would routing a fuller in them (keeping 1 1/4 cross section) maybe help?

The way they broke is the issue.

all other kingdoms have rules against using polypro for weapons? if not then they are legal.

regards
logan

They are illegal in the Middle, unless Count Alaric has changed the previous KEM's ruling.

[Ulrich]

They are not legal in Meridies.

[Thorstenn]

So did hardly no kingdoms test these? Not like its new, they have been tested for 2+ years society wide. They are legal now and kingdoms still need to do further testing? what was the point of having a test period in the first place?

Thor-

[dukelogan]

i would assume they were. why else would kingdoms write specific rules against them? or were they specifically banned without testing?

regards
logan

So did hardly no kingdoms test these? Not like its new, they have been tested for 2+ years society wide. They are legal now and kingdoms still need to do further testing? what was the point of having a test period in the first place?

Thor-

[Lucas]

Lochac is just beginning testing now. I'm not sure of other kingdoms.

[dukelogan]

my reading of their rules would prohibit the use of these as the construction of a single handed weapon state rattan or siloflex skinned rattan only and, specifically, this part:

Approved rigid plastics: Siloflex and Siloflex equivalents are currently the only rigid plastic approved for the striking surface of a weapon.

regards
logan

Lochac is just beginning testing now. I'm not sure of other kingdoms.

[Thomas MacFinn]

What is the testing process?

As I understand it, the current testing process is the KEM or whomever he has appointed for the task (Marshal for Experimental Weeapons, etc) announces that something is available for testing, then whomever feels like it tries the item out and reports back to that person (again, if they feel like going to the bother). This means that the people who do 90% of the testing and 90% of the reporting back are the fans of whatever is being tested. Am I correct?

[Hrolfr]

What is the testing process?

As I understand it, the current testing process is the KEM or whomever he has appointed for the task (Marshal for Experimental Weeapons, etc) announces that something is available for testing, then whomever feels like it tries the item out and reports back to that person (again, if they feel like going to the bother). This means that the people who do 90% of the testing and 90% of the reporting back are the fans of whatever is being tested. Am I correct?

Not in the Middle.

People allowed to used the experimental weapons need to report back after every event the weapons are used at. These people are usually Red Co. or Knights.

All experimental weapons are 'specially' marked, and must be allowed to strike you (ie if you don't feel comfortable against an 'experimental' weapon you don't need to fight against them).

Input is sent to the KDEM within several days of each event that the weapon was used at.

[Sjolander]

So they're legal unless your kingdom has a specific rule against them, correct?

[Murdock]

banned here...kinda surprised

meh

no skin off my nose

[dukelogan]

and now not legal for use at pennsic according to the ek kem in discussion with the mid kem.

regards
logan

[Luca Sogliano]

People allowed to used the experimental weapons need to report back after every event the weapons are used at. These people are usually Red Co. or Knights.

Just a note, when the experiment was done in the Middle, people of all skill levels were sought out. They, at least at one point, were specifically looking for newer fighters willing to try it and report back.

[Nissan Maxima]

Like I said, Legal in Milpetas and Atlantia.

[Melisent]

Has anyone, anywhere reported being injured by a poly pro sword?
(Asking purely out of curiosity.)

[Ulrich]

Injured? We don't report injuries, even in experiments.

(I joke, but it is true)

-Ulrich

[Duke Patrick O'Malley]

Has anyone, anywhere reported being injured by a poly pro sword?
(Asking purely out of curiosity.)

They have been in regular use here for four years with no safety issues or injuries. If anyone is interested in seeing the last report we submitted on them, send me your email.

Last Saturday (Now) Sir Grimm was made to fight a gauntlet of knights before being offered the accolade. Three of the knights fighting him in this video are using poly swords.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=ho ... =2&theater

Patrick, Caid

[dukelogan]

odd. i just read caids handbook (dated 2009, i didnt see a newer version) and poly swords are not legal:

B. Single-Handed Weapons: Weapons that shall be used in one hand shall have the following requirements:
1. Single handed weapons shall be constructed of rattan or rattan-cored Siloflex or Siloflex equivalent and
shall be not less than 1⁄4 1inch (31.8 mm) in total diameter (including tape) along its entire length
excepting the handle.
2. Rattan-cored Siloflex or Siloflex equivalent weapons shall be constructed using tubular materials
meeting ASTM standard D-2239 or the international equivalent, having at least a 1⁄4 1inch (31.8 mm)
diameter on the outside and at least 1/8 inch (3.2 mm) walls, and having an inner core of rattan that fills the
interior of the tubular material entirely. Periodic inspection shall be made to determine the condition of the
inner core.


regards
logan

Has anyone, anywhere reported being injured by a poly pro sword?
(Asking purely out of curiosity.)

They have been in regular use here for four years with no safety issues or injuries. If anyone is interested in seeing the last report we submitted on them, send me your email.

Last Saturday (Now) Sir Grimm was made to fight a gauntlet of knights before being offered the accolade. Three of the knights fighting him in this video are using poly swords.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=ho ... =2&theater

Patrick, Caid

[Duke Patrick O'Malley]

odd. i just read caids handbook (dated 2009, i didnt see a newer version) and poly swords are not legal:

[/quote]
That is because they have been experimental to this point. All society legal weapons are legal in Caid unless specifically prohibited. The swords will be added in the next update. The only weapons we do not use are certain types of arrows. Even those are allowed at Great Western War, as we like to make our gests feel welcome.

HRH Patrick, Caid

[FrauHirsch1]

I have marshaled a number of fights where polypro was used, and the only issues I've seen has been people occasionally not feeling that they hit hard enough. (to the point of the recipient not knowing it was polypro and asking if the rattan was breaking down)

Nothing indicating they are dangrous so far.

-J

[dukelogan]

gotcha. so they are still experimental and will contiue to be so until the next rewrite. saves the hassle (if its a hassle for you guys) of having to make an amendment. in atlantia the marshals handbook is considered policy, not law, so amendments can be made at any time without holding a curia (which we require for a law change).

regards
logan

odd. i just read caids handbook (dated 2009, i didnt see a newer version) and poly swords are not legal:

That is because they have been experimental to this point. All society legal weapons are legal in Caid unless specifically prohibited. The swords will be added in the next update. The only weapons we do not use are certain types of arrows. Even those are allowed at Great Western War, as we like to make our gests feel welcome.

HRH Patrick, Caid[/quote]

[Duke Patrick O'Malley]

gotcha. so they are still experimental and will contiue to be so until the next rewrite. saves the hassle (if its a hassle for you guys) of having to make an amendment. in atlantia the marshals handbook is considered policy, not law, so amendments can be made at any time without holding a curia (which we require for a law change).

regards
logan

[/quote]
Like I said, Society legal weapons that are not specifically prohibited by our handbook are legal in Caid. Polypro swords and 2” tips on spears are legal here and where both on the field at our war last weekend. They will both be added to the next revision of our handbook. Hopefully I will sign it in the next few weeks.

Patrick