Does SCA still allow a 15/16 gauge helm? if spring steel?

[Garick]

However the type of foam can have alot to do with how that helm absorbs all that energy from a blow. For instance if all you use is open cell foam you are going to probably end up bottoming out if you take a good solid blow but you will also kind that it takes alot of the kinetic energy out of the blow. On the other side if you use only close cell foam you will be hard pressed to bottom the helm out but at the same time you will reduce very little of the concussive force that comes along with that shot.

Quoted for truth! After I saw my lady get her second concussion (she claimed the first was just a freak accident) with the padding she was using in her 14gg stainless helm, I took it away and re-padded it. Like so many helms I see these days, it was closed-cell only, and a pretty hard closed cell at that.

While I love period solutions to period problems, this is one place I still use modern technology. I pad helms with one layer of Ensolite (tm) camping pad as the closed cell, or similar. Looking for a gooshy foam here, usually blue or black. The green military sleeping pads are way too hard, and concussive force just zings right through them. Then I put in a very thin layer of open cell foam (1/4 inch is plenty) for comfort and force dissipation. Finally, I sew a layer of linen over the whole thing to hide the modern foam and hold the padding together. As a bonus, this makes a nice sweatband and is removable after fighting to dry out.

Last, but far from least, is fit. I can't tell you how often I've seen padding that presses against the forehead and leaves air gaps over the temples. This is an issue of helm fit, but can also be corrected by tailoring padding.

Frankly, I think padding issues and chin straps that allow helm movemement are responsible for far more concussions than weight of steel.

[zippy]

-i will only fight versus single swords-no poles or double handers-

I am taking this quote out of context? Or is this your actual intention?

[seanjohnson1]

Hey "Zippy"

Your Excellency!

I will be at fighter practice tomorrow.

U wnat me to bring heaters and gorgets?

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

My first helm had a skull made from an old GI pot, which makes it about 18 gauge or so (I made all the cool hats for other people, but never had the time to make myself a nice helm). I wore it about ten years in Atenveldt, a place of extreme brutality, and my favorite weapons were great weapons, with the odd halberd on halberd duel. In Atenveldt, halberds are typically 7 and a half feet long. The thing that kept me from getting my light bulb popped was that I use a military suspension liner, with some closed cell foam glued into it just in case the webbing ever gave way and it bottomed out. There is an old tale that part of the SS intiation ritual was to have to stand perfectly still while a concussion grenade went off on top of their helmet. If they didn't flinch, they didn't get hurt except perhaps for a bit of hearing loss. I can well believe it; the first time I wore it I got into a LOT of trouble with the peerage from not taking shots from a fellow called 'Count Dennis of the Titans' who I THOUGHT I was blocking! I had to get used to counting extremely light for anything coming down vertically. I never saw stars in all the many, many wars and melees I was in. The second helm I made from scratch was a Mk I case-hardened piece that weighed about 7 and a half pounds, and I took a baseball swing for the fences from a great sword straight upside my head one day. It was padded with a layer of that accursed blue closed-cell foam which tends to act like a rigid solid under high kinetic energy impact, and a layer of open cell foam. It was an alarming experience because for a fraction of a second (it felt like a lot longer; adrenaline and all that) I could feel the helm crawling around on my head like it wanted to get off, there was a weird sound, and even though I had double spring pins holding the visor down, it popped wide open, leaving me quite vulnerable. The helm did not dent,however, and I didn't feel any pain at all. My neck was just fine. The helm had absorbed the impact energy very nicely.

[seanjohnson1]

nice info guys!

yes when i mean single sword-- i meant sword and shield one opponent versus one opponent only

not just guys with one single handed swords and no shield
lol Zippy!
i would fight florentine guys too, maybe single hand maces

i just cannot risj my mangled neck to 'sucker punch' not looking pole thrusts and various two-handed mauling instruments that wont break a bone but will move my head and neck in various weird and not good ways...lol

gonna look into the military webbing plus padding idea--thing is i have looked at that before and webbing has it's drtaw backs too PS they used that kind of webbing in later period helms as well mostly set up to withstand concussive force from downward firing early handgonnes and such...not to avoid penetration but simply to avoid the bl;ast knocking them unconcious where thye could be raped killed and or carried away as hostages...lol

[Russ Mitchell]

I have a question on this topic: I'm used to a lighter helm, but significantly more padding (felt underhats, and even, bizarrely enough, for Cumans sometimes overhats, too) than most SCA folks use. Have any of you folks ever tried/tested a rig made that way?

I'm curious because of the threads we've had recently on the effectiveness of different kinds of padding, where felt would seem to be a classic "good for slow-moving hits" material (albeit irrelevant to most folks doing western-euro portrayals, I understand).