Questions about Gambeson design

[Imp. Cae. M. Ulp. Nerva Traianus]

Hi, brand new to the forum!
I was wondering if there were any historical examples of soft wool felts being used for padding (gambesons) under armour, i am thinking of making a new gambeson (I bought my first one) and i wanted to use thick felt that was quilted to remove the necessity of having too many layers of padding inside the piece.

[Konstantin the Red]

Welcome, well come, and Ave, Nerva Traianus!

Yeah, it works. Not that quilting up a bunch of layers of linen is actually a huge nuisance compared to any other method of building your gamby: they are all labor intensive.

[Imp. Cae. M. Ulp. Nerva Traianus]

Thank you for responding!

so you are saying that felt padding is historically accurate in some situations?

[Konstantin the Red]

Those situations of functionality, yes. Most of the rest of the historicity question would be the actual fiber, just as you wouldn't make a poly-cotton-blend tunica but would stick to wool.

That's the short answer. Want a Hadrian's Wall of text too?

Around here we get discussion of balancing, with present-day materials, not all of which are space-age, the functioning with the historical, hence all of us see a spectrum running from SCA-Engineered school of design to the strictest of hand-sewn Living History demonstrations of what our forebears could do with the things they had. We get this all the time, and threshing this out is one of the functions of this Archive -- if some compromise is pressed upon some inquirer, it is because of two things: first, it is ancillary to his ultimate end, which is often to get out on the fighting field and contend with his fellows in the sport; second, the compromise sought has much to do with the weight of a too-light purse for doing it up à la museum grade. Much as he might like to. Much as he may hope to do so one day. Much as we'll all admire the lovely thing once ever he achieve it.

The SCA Eng. school of armor design is in its way the liveliest of the experimental/experiential archaeology usually seen. It serves best either in concealment under nice opaque plate armor head to foot, or in low-profile protection that pretends it is not there -- hard arms and legs for Vikings, etc. It doesn't hesitate to use or test modern protective materials, or more period-oidly (paramedievaloidly?) messing about with modernistic touches mixed in the period-method solutions -- quick release fasteners, say, or gussets in eyeleted fabric intended for better ventilation to suit European-type equipment to American latitudes and summer temps. Our Australian correspondents doubtless attend to the same things, and even more so, their country being partly located within the Tropics. I have no idea what they do for linen... SCA Eng. tends to end up testing modern solutions against period ones too. The period stuff holds up pretty well, we find. The one modern armor material we commonly use that I think kicks ass all the way around the insula on even the best medieval material is 300-series stainless -- for its corrosion resistance. Everything else, you have to commit to its maintenance. That series of stainlesses performs superbly without it -- at the price of looking aerospace-metal rather than Renaissance metal. TANSTAAFL.

At the other end, we get the Living History effort -- trying to replicate what they did then, and carefully. The whole Stitch Nazi, Authenticity Police thing. Along with the Authenticity Police Paradox: it's hardly period to know something isn't period. Hinc caveat -- watch it, there. Or watch it going there.

That disposed of, it's still a damn fine endeavor. Sets the bar well over Renfaire. While a brigandine or a coat-of-plates or any other covered armor may function superbly if its metal is stainless, mild- to medium-carbon steel hot dipped in molten tin or carefully painted against rust was how they did corrosion resistance back in the day, and it is fine to demonstrate these things to the fullest. Though we are probably not going to practice fire gilding/false Damascening ever, as even Living History's practice isn't supposed to jail you for polluting. They kind of suspected fire gilding wasn't good for one's health even back then -- whether or not one died more ordinarily of an infectious fever or something instead, and rather muddled the signal.

It speaks for itself so well that I haven't much to add. It's also a fine bulwark against the "Can I get away with this" mentality, which leads to snares IMHO.

[Christophe de Frisselle]

What time and place are you recreating?

[Konstantin the Red]

That's another one we ask a lot. I see from your profile you're just starting out in studying the ancient ways, and that your present interest is the Classical Era... which was both long and pretty wide.

If you're connected with a group of Roman reenactors down there in TX this is good to know also. We get simply everyone, and the various groups' requirements have their differences.

[Tracy Justus]

In addition to time/place/social station you want to portray, what game do you play? The SCA, LARP, and living history games require different gear (with some overlap) and have different expectations regarding historical accuracy.

T.

[Imp. Cae. M. Ulp. Nerva Traianus]

Although it is true I am interested in the classics (I have spent a lot the last four years of my study of the classics to learn about different styles and eras of classical arms and armour), I have never attempted to create any armour from that period.
I do not 'play' in it in the same sense. I am a minor, so it is illegal for me to engage in mock combat, All the armour i own ((nice Hauberk I made)(Nice Coif I made)(Shitty Brigandine I made)(loose and awkward Gambeson I bought)(fairly nice leather gloves, belt, pouches, boots I bought)) I make/buy to wear primarily to Ren Faires and to School. I am trying to make a nice Gabeson for my self that fits much more tightly and has better padding/quilting, really I intend it almost to be a piece of wearable art. The period I intend to recreate in this Gambeson (for which the initial question was asked) is supposed to be from what I hear termed the 'transitional era' from the mid 14th century to early 15th. So is there any evidence of Felt being used as the padding in Gabesons for this Period? and What are 'historical' materials for the outer layers for this period?

[Amanda M]

Just an FYI in the SCA there are youth combat divisions. My daughter is 12 and she is interested in fighting so as soon as I am out of my paramedic program I am going to see about getting her involved.

[Ernst]

The period I intend to recreate in this Gambeson (for which the initial question was asked) is supposed to be from what I hear termed the 'transitional era' from the mid 14th century to early 15th. So is there any evidence of Felt being used as the padding in Gabesons for this Period? and What are 'historical' materials for the outer layers for this period?

From 1322:

That a haketon and a gambeson covered with sendale, or with cloth of silk, shall be stuffed with new cotton cloth, and with cadaz, and with old sendales, and in no other manner. And that white haketons shall be stuffed with old woven cloth, and with cotton, and made of new woven cloth within and without.

Sendale or cendal is a fine light silk. Some account mention buckram, which is suspected of being like a stiff linen canvas for the shell. Cadaz is uncertain, but might be linen-tow, while loose cotton is used in a all surviving examples.

[Konstantin the Red]

Your profile says one more year will put you legal for SCA rattan hardstick -- that's next to no time at all, and it's not a barrier to SCA membership in the meantime if you care for it. Might allocate some summer job earnings to that...

If you're leaning toward 14th-c. harness -- I use it myself when I'm in harness at all -- and you want to build it on your own, the book we all recommend is Price's TOMAR, paperback or hard. (Making your own is going to take up that year you've got anyway.) Not only will its knowledge suit you up quite well enough to play hardstick with the big boys, it also contains a couple of excellent patterns for gambesons -- a cotehardie style arming cote, and a German Lentner. List legal SCA armor is very good at preventing injuries in our sport -- even knee injuries if articulated leg armor is used -- plate legs, that is. Most SCA ouchies are bruises from shots landing in places we were doing without armor in. Get, or build, a fairly heavy helmet, of 14 gauge steel or even a bit heavier.

Even fourteenth-century plate is of varied degrees of comprehensiveness, and varies by region very greatly -- say, up in the Celtic Fringe of Europe...

Also, getting out to play with the stick boys can reliably put you into contact with smart nerd girls, those women for whom the ordinary day-to-day life isn't really enough... some guys join Band, others go into the Drama Club -- to meet women. Might ought to have done that one myself and saved myself some silliness and pessimism! (Women tend to like kilted pipers...) But as a dating pool for nerds of any gender, the Society for Creative Anachronism is nigh unexcelled. It's worth dipping a toe in at least -- all of my love life had an SCA connection. Everything from first love to marriage with a few stops in between. This ain't armor, but it does kind of keep a fella from being just narrow.

[Konstantin the Red]

How thick is your wool felt, come to that? You don't need a great deal under plate anything -- about the thickness of a wool blanket. There are such things as standalone gambesons, intended to be all the torso protection you have. That needs to be quilted thicker of course. Not what most people these days think of when you say "arms and armor," but functional and efficient -- and used then.

Wool felt would also be good, layered thick enough and a little bit boofy, in period-padding a helm. Especially teamed with a linen arming-coif, just a little cap of a sweatcatcher, made in three pieces, two seams (two sides, middle stripe front to back), tied under your chin. Foam rubber works to pad a helmet, but it also rides hot -- great insulation, mighty warm in Texas. Linen is the breathable fabric that rides cool. Wool has a springiness, and quilted down pretty tight rides cooler than you might expect, just not so cool as linen.

The short answer is yes, wool felt is at worst plausible as gamby material, and that's about the worst you could say of it from an authenticity viewpoint. I don't think the Rennies are going to bother you on it, eh?

It's rather hard to come up with any but literary proof of what materials were used. The record tends to be of the fancy aristocratic kind of stuff: various silks were a badge of aristocratic wear, and cotton stuff was an import from African and Near Eastern fields, hence had a cachet. These got noted; linen and woolen materials much less so.

[Imp. Cae. M. Ulp. Nerva Traianus]

I do actually already have a copy of Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction, which I have had for several years and is much ruffled due to use.
Thanks for the responses about Gambeson materials, i guess I wont be using the felt (which I knit and is about maybe 1/8 inch thick at the most) So how many layers of linen should I use for the padding inside the Piece, and it sounds like some sort of silk or thick cotton for the outside? I just want to make it as accurate as possible. On the SCA, do you know of any groups around Houston that practice combat, Konstantin, cause i could certainly use some experience and that and get more guidance about armour production.

[leekellerking]

I do actually already have a copy of Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction, which I have had for several years and is much ruffled due to use.
Thanks for the responses about Gambeson materials, i guess I wont be using the felt (which I knit and is about maybe 1/8 inch thick at the most) So how many layers of linen should I use for the padding inside the Piece, and it sounds like some sort of silk or thick cotton for the outside? I just want to make it as accurate as possible. On the SCA, do you know of any groups around Houston that practice combat, Konstantin, cause i could certainly use some experience and that and get more guidance about armour production.

If you are in Friendswood, you are in the Barony of Loch Soilleir (Clear Lake). Find them on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/134428422244/

Or I can get you the info for the local hospitaller (newcomer guide) if you wish.

I'm in The Barony of The Stargate (Houston) in New Territory, myself, but have friends in the Loch.

It is a good group - check it out.

Leif

[Alberdi]

From practical point of view, gambesons made out of felt are good on their own. But they are a bit hot.
For plate, we build our gambesons out of thin woolen blankets (easy).
Layered linen/wool cloth gambs are a bit more expensive to build, but every penny is worth it. They are way much cooler. (As Konstantin said)

Just avoid bulding a "fluffy" gambeson. You will cook yourself up inside one of those.

[Konstantin the Red]

And good word comes from Chile... nothing to do with peppery stew in a bowl, everything to do with mountains, citrus fruits in opposite season to California's, and good wine. We just got done picking the big lemon crop here -- double trailer trucks going to the shippers, full to heaping with bright, bright yellow lemons. Stay tuned for word on a late crop of strawberries; latest thing seems to be to grow them under translucent shades put up over the fields, and the raised strawberry beds covered over with white plastic sheet instead of earlier-seasons' black plastic.

Which isn't gambesons.

Well, hand felted blue wool goes over real well with the Scottish reenactors. They're forever on the lookout for good blue bonnets. And handmade artisanal felted bonnets... well. Don't be afraid to charge good money for your labors. Price it too cheap and they'll actually wonder what might be wrong with it. Researching what the market will bear is good in this circumstance.

And that's hardly gambesons either.

100% wool blanketing quilted down pretty tight makes a good gamby. Has something of a heat disadvantage next to linen for high summer in Texas, but not so bad for the depth of winter.

Sometimes you can score a nice sale on 100% linen from online places. Unless you get lucky with a remainder-fabrics store locally, you are never going to see discounts on real, 100% linen at the local Jo-Ann. Fabrics.com is reliable about keeping it in stock, but scouting around for economical sales and clearances will take work and searching. Prints you wouldn't care for in linen do fine for inner layers, and linen you actually like the color of goes well for shell and liner. Sometimes you can hope for medium-weight linen around six dollars a yard in the discount bin, but mostly they charge ten-ish. Heavyweight 100% linen I haven't stumbled over a lot of in my occasional looks. Something like hemp-linen canvas, favored by Coat of Plates and brigandine builders going for a lot of authenticity, seems a specialty item, both rare and strong. And I'm afraid to ask what it costs.

I wouldn't turn down a silk-linen blend. Ran across 50/50 silk/linen at $10/yd last month, a bit under what they were charging for linen on the same page. Should be pretty stout stuff.

[Imp. Cae. M. Ulp. Nerva Traianus]

So if i were to use a cotton linen for the outside, filler, and lining, how many layers should I be using, because I have read sources that mention dozens of layers (And I would use thicker/nicer cloth for the outside and lining)

[Keegan Ingrassia]

When you read about dozens of layers, you're more often than not talking about a padded jack or gambeson, designed to be worn by itself as armour. Those are the poor man's armour, for men that couldn't afford plate, designed to retard a cut or hopefully absorb the force of a crushing blow. Aketons and the like, other foundation garments, things that you wear under your armour as both a shock absorption and a suspension system...need far less layers, or even padding.

The confusion arises because historical sources didn't often make distinctions when they were talking about clothing. Instead of stating the shape and type of coat, they just said cotte. Same holds true here. Gambeson and haketon were used interchangebly. Its more of a modern historian's practice to assign specific names to these things, just so we all understand what we're talking about.

So, gambeson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambeson

Aketon:

http://www.revivalclothing.com/article- ... uence.aspx

[Konstantin the Red]

Under your hauberk, four-five layers of medium-weight linen plus lining and shell. You'd like the shell to be pretty sturdy. Under your brigandine, less -- about half that. Same for plate; you don't need much because plate pieces spread the shock out, and what you really want a bit of cushioning for is to keep the plate from chafing you raw.

Points of your shoulders, couple more layers -- cover those bony bits so they don't get chipped. Don't hesitate to reduce thickness at the inside of the elbows, and even all the way around your waist by a layer, maybe two. Try and build so it's easy to bend at your bendy places, but you don't have to concern yourself so much with the rigid parts, like your entire ribcage from short ribs to collarbones, and the long bones of your arms. You can make yourself thigh protection the same way, and run extra layering down the outside of your leg, particularly right at the great trochanter of your thighbone -- that bony spot in your thigh joint.

The manifold stuff you were seeing mentioned such as in "Ordinances of Louis XI" looks to be for standalone gambesons -- somewhat different beasts from underarmor gambies. Searching the term onsite here will give you more discussion and recommendations about how many layers you really need against your threat level.

Hard reinforcement, say of HDPE plastic splints cut by you, may be inserted within the quilting. The piece is still washable with them in place. These may also be installed in interior pockets, say as with hard kidney coverage for SCA.

Linen should be pre-shrunk, hot water wash and hot temp drying. The fabric frays in a big way, so run blanket stitch around any cut edges at all to restrain the fraying before doing the shrink-wash. Selvedge edges have already got this taken care of.

[Alberdi]

Righ now, I'm building a Gamby, which is supposed to be worn under maille and some rigid armour for a friend of mine (Persian kit).
I traded it for a federschwert sword

It includes the following layers:
a) 1xSturdy white woolen shell: Might be replaced by "lightweight canvas?" (It's called "Crea" in spanish. It's a 100% cotton fabric, pretty sturdy but soft if washed with softener). Medium-weight canvas might also work.
b) 3-4 x lighweight-mediumweight wool: Horrible pattern, but fair-enough quality (80% wool, 20% "random stuff")
c) 1 x lightweight canvas: It helps to isolate a little bit the wool's itchiness.
d) 1 x soft cotton: Hopefully black if you don't want it to look dirty after 1-2 uses. It helps to reduce chaffing

Things you might like to check over/consider:
Grand Assiete building: Pretty popular for your period (1350-1400). If properly used, it's VERY comfortable
http://www.cottesimple.com/blois_and_sl ... erview.htm





By the way: Bad thing I'm not living on the same town of some relatives... As they grow and export grapes to the U.S.A.
And that my grandpa passed away a lot of years ago... As he managed the family vineyard and made an awesome moonshine. Afterwards, the vineyard was sold (as we were one of the 7 co-owners).

[Imp. Cae. M. Ulp. Nerva Traianus]

So is this Grand Assiette worn under just plate, or plate with a haubergeon underneath, and how similar is this to gambesons from Earlier eras when just maille was worn over a gambeson. Making one of these looks pretty simple enough, and once I build a Churburg Style Breastplate to go over my hauberk, I should be set on chest protection. Can anyone suggest a gauge of steel to use for a breastplate, I usually practice forming in 18 and 22 gauge metals

[Alberdi]

Remember: The grand assiette is just a way to build the armpit area of your Gambeson.

Anyways... the easiest way to understand all the stuff you need to build a late XIV kit, is shown on the following link:
(I really like this kit)

http://www.revivalclothing.com/article- ... uence.aspx



Then it goes something like this for the torso:

a) Doublet (Some people use special belts for leg suspension). It helps a lot to design the Gambeson's patterns.
b) Gambeson
c) Hauberk (for the looks)
d) Globose

For the breastplate, 16 Gauge (mild) works fine for the front and sides, and 18 for the rear plates.
About gambeson thickness: I'm not sure. I would say that it should be thinner than for a maille-only armour. This is because the hauberk is not very effective vs blunt trauma as is the plate armour. But that's the cool thing about "Custom made" gambesons; you may add extra layers in specific, unprotected areas.

[Konstantin the Red]

18 or 16 in mild, 18 or 20 in SS.

16ga mild is not materially more difficult to form than 18, really. Rather more dent resistant in actual use.

There are two famous Churburg breasts: No. 13's segmented, and No. 14's globose, both of them of quite similar profile: pretty domy over the pit of your stomach and lower heart region, flatter above it. Either one is about as easy as the other to form in your shop.

A cotehardie-style arming cote à grands assietes -- which refers specifically to the style of its sleeves and armholes, those being gigantic -- suits your first two choices, basically 14th-c. plate and the same era's transitional plate with a haubergeon. Back in the 'berk era, we expect something more like the garments in the Maciejowski Bible of the middle thirteenth. Arming garments followed fashionable menswear, throughout the entire era. When in doubt, find out what the gentlemen were wearing; it'd be some armoring modification of that (points or eyelets for points) -- you got into the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, the arming-cote was now the arming doublet and didn't look like a cotehardie any more, but like a doublet in or near that half-decade's fashion. Even slashed doublets, though contemporary writers also said fashionable "cuttes" decorating your doublet would make your armor snag. So if you construct one of these gorgeous beasts for underneath late-sixteenth armor, pink it only with great restraint.

[Imp. Cae. M. Ulp. Nerva Traianus]

Another question, since the Gambeson is formed in different parts of different layer counts (different panels) should I quilt all the layers in the individual panels first and then attach all the quilted pieces together, or should I form the whole thing in one layer and then "stuff" it with the linen with different degrees of thickness and then quilt it all together?

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Lots have tailors have found that the easiest method is to quilt major 'panels' together, then attach them to one another. I.E., quilt the lower and upper sleeve, the back, chest, and waist, then attach them to one another. My aketon with the grand assiette sleeves is currently still in pattern muslin, or I'd provide pictures. At any rate, you don't have to individually quilt each little gore. Sew pieces into major components, then quilt, then assemble the whole.

[Andeerz]

Just gonna throw in some of my personal experience in here... if you are going to point anything to it, reinforce the eyelets or whatever area that might bear some pulling, ESPECIALLY if you decide to use any non-bast fiber type of material which is not really strong enough to take much of that kind of punishment (like cotton denim). I have a gamby made of thick denim and stupidly fought in it without reinforcing the eyelets with a nice material like leather or plastic. After a single sweaty hour long battle, my points had almost become holes big enough to stick a few fingers through.

[Alberdi]

IMO, it's better to build the panels individually, and then attach them alltogether.
For better results, the shell and the lining shall be 1/2" - 1" bigger than the inner layers. Quilt each panel together first. The edges shall be left "open".

For assembly, you may align the edges of the inner layers and sew them together with a zig-zag stich. The tighter the better. A 1/2" wide zig-zag works fine. Watch out for fraying, so prepare the edges well.
For the looks, the shell and the liner shall be sewed by hand. They shall overlap, in order to hide the zig-zag stitches.
Finally, the outer edges shall be closed too.

When I feel lazy, I baste using a stapler instead of a running stitch before quilting. It's quick, keeps everything in place, but may damage your shell/liner if it is a delicate cloth.

[Konstantin the Red]

Another question, since the Gambeson is formed in different parts of different layer counts (different panels) should I quilt all the layers in the individual panels first and then attach all the quilted pieces together . . .

Baste the layers together a bit temporarily, and assemble the pieces into subassemblies: body, skirts, each sleeve. With everything in a subassembly sewn together, then quilt stitch that for keeps. Quilt stitchlines an inch apart are very laborious and take a long time. My CdeB I quilted every two inches, and I think I'd recommend 3-inch spacing over two. It's also worthwhile to get artistic with the stitch lines and make nice fans/sprays of diverging lines. This may seem too stoopid simple to do much for the style of the garment, but the result is actually impressive. These usually flared out from the waist seam, both upwards to chest and back, and downwards to the hem, often only on the back half of the skirts because the front half of the skirts is divided, and has the garment's closure to lend interest to centerline front.

. . . or should I form the whole thing in one layer and then "stuff" it with the linen with different degrees of thickness and then quilt it all together?

Don't do that. They didn't. It also messes with your dimensions quite a lot, as the fabric panels get pulled narrower in the direction perpendicular to the sewn channels you'd stuff -- to a varying degree, yet, if the packing of the rag stuffing differed at all! Much easier to get good results by making up a lasagna of cloth layers. The stuffing method can also tighten, say, your sleeves overmuch. My upper right sleeve is a little tighter than I want because I tried that method. You want your upper arms to be easy for mobility, though your forearms can be fitted about like a thick coat of paint.

When changing the number of layers for any reason, taper things down or up layer by layer rather than stop or start abruptly -- looks much smoother, handles better.

Thus for the cote-hardie and similarly derived armyng-cotes.* A fifteenth-century-style poofy-top sleeve/shoulder is the opposite way: that poof does start abruptly, and is stuffed -- a stuffed area rather than a stuffed tube, that is. We think it originated in a couple of desires: to put serious padding underneath proto-pauldrons and real pauldrons in harness, and because it made your shoulders look really big which gave you the fashionable waspwaisted look. Even when you yourself, well, weren't exactly.

*"Cote hardie" was a term that began in some opprobrium -- the old fuds, in their knee-length garments, their hose and their hoods, viewing this new shorter fashion with alarm figured it was being worn by the foolhardy, the young bucks who'd do simply anything to draw the girls' eye. Including having their butts peeping out from under their upper garment, and risking coming down with colds and pneumonia from not wearing enough clothes all the time. And then twisting their perfectly good hoods into these fabric doughnuts of hats, rolling the face opening back and back until it began to shrink enough to fit snugly about their brows, with the remaining cowl of the hood and any liripipe becoming decorative dangles emerging from this roll. Well, this trick with a hood suited summertime.

But all was not tumultuous. There was something of a meeting of fashion minds in the houppelande, which could be had short or long or occasionally medium, could be had for either sex, and took a lot of nice fabric to make too, what with its big sleeves and its pleatings in the body -- that weren't unlike those sprays of stitchlines in their arrangement. Houppelandes suit anybody.

[Imp. Cae. M. Ulp. Nerva Traianus]

Alrighty!

Thanks to all of you for answering my questions.
I should get around to start building this piece over the next few weekends, so expect pictures by November!

[James B.]

Aketon:

http://www.revivalclothing.com/article- ... uence.aspx

Just FYI the Charles de Blous garment is not military in nature it is a padded civilian garment as best we can tell.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

True, but what better example for grand assiette sleeves exists?

[James B.]

Personally I am not a believer in the grand assiette sleeves in use for a padded garment under armor. There are not many manuscripts with the under padding showing but those that do show no indication of this cut even when doublets and gowns in the same manuscript are shown with this cut. Typical set in sleeves are seen on every under padded garment I have found from the 1340s-1420s

Not saying it is not possible just saying there is no positive evidence I have found yet.

[Konstantin the Red]

In the other pan of the balance, the arm freedom of the close-fitted grands-assietes sleeve is remarkable for a closed armpit. It's beyond remarkable, it is extraordinary.

[coreythompsonhm]

Konstantine- you mentioned quilt lines being used in artistic fashion... Any photo examples? Im fairly close to being done with the initial fitting of my CdeB made of the scrap fabric. I was going to quilt the final product like the original CdeB, but its a tad... Boring. After all this work (and money on materials) I want it look good.

[Konstantin the Red]

I hear ya there. One place you can look in is TOMAR, p. 304.

If we can find nothing else, look at men's houppelandes -- maybe women's too -- and imitate their fold arrays in stitch lines. Draw them on with tailors' chalk, and stitch. I'd consider minor embellishment at the end of each stitch line -- a small lanceolate leaf shape, oak leaf, a fleur de lys. Restrained, but nice, ya know?

Astor-Versand company -- page is in German.

Fretty.

On Flickr, Andre de Montsegur's Photostream has several gambeson images, mainly period art. When I see any detail at all, what appears is vertical quilting lines. Have a look at the guy in the scale fauld on the right of this pic. His quilt lines taper towards the waist.

With the quilt-lines of a grands-assietes sleeve, one could just continue repeating those circular lines the shoulder parts have right down the body of the cote. The stitch lines meet at the button closure center front, in cusps. Surface adornment of CdeB-type cotehardies was done, to whatever degree they could manage. That could be quite a degree indeed.

That aside, I shouldn't give you a lot of "do this, this, this" -- it's your gambeson, and you're the one who's going to enjoy it.