Battle of the Nations (BotN) Helmet Construction Issues

[Craig Nadler]

I'm starting this thread to discuss the following issues with designing helmets for use in the Battle of the Nations (BotN) tournament and the Armored Combat League (ACL) :

I'd like to gather points of reference. If you were at BotN 2012 then please post:

* What was the weight of your helmet with and without the camail / aventail?

* What type and thickness of sheet metal was the helmet contructed from? Please note if different parts of the helmet are constructed from different types or thicknesses of sheet metal.

* How much room did it have for padding? What types and thickness of padding did you use?

* Did the helmet that you used have a camail / aventail?

* If the helmet had a visor, then what method or methods did you use to keep the visor closed in combat?

* How well did the helmet perform for you?

Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

[Nissan Maxima]

14 lbs with camail
12 g mild
closed cell foam and period liner. 0.75 inch
clap visor with leather strap.
I was uninjured and the helmet, though dented is still very useable.

You didn't ask, but it is a windrose.
http://www.facebook.com/daniel.stool.5? ... =3&theater

[Balin50]

15.5 with tail though im going to a welded one 2 lbs lighter
12g mild carborized (made really hard)
Clap visor leather strap
Period liner sewed in with Football anit concussion padding between liner and helm (see if i can find link)

Aesir metalworks

[Vladimir]

That is such a cool pic Nissan.

[Gaston de Clermont]

My hat is about 15lbs including the avantail. It's a klapvisor bascinet. The top of the skull is 12ga stainless, the sides are 14g stainless. Both dented substantially, but the dents mostly pounded out and it's still quite usable. I made a new face plate for it in 14g 4130, which didn't dent at all. My padding was a period liner I stuffed with flax fibers. I got a bit of a headache in Poland, from some hard hits, but no concussion.

[Craig Nadler]

Gaston de Clermont:

How much padding did you use?


All:

The 12ga stainless top "denting substantially" is kind of worrying. My current plan is to make helmets from 0.090"/13ga/2.3mm 1050 spring steel that has been heat treated to a Rc40 hardness. The helmet is heated to 1500F/816C and quench it in water, then temper it for 30 minutes at 650F/343C. At that temper the metal should resist denting as well as 11ga stainless steel or 0.162"/9ga/4.1mm mild steel.

Another option is that I could harden to a Rc45 using a 600F/316C 30 minute temper. At that temper 0.090"/13ga/2.3mm 1050 spring steel should resist denting as if it 9ga stainless steel or 0.180"/7ga/4.6mm mild steel. However, if it dents then you'd have to leave the dents as not to risk causing any cracks to form.


Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

[Signo]

No matter how strong it will be, it will dent. How much it will dent is what you can influence with thickness and hardness, but you have to think where is the right compromise between production effort and durability.

[Craig Nadler]

Signo:

In the case of armour for the 1-on-1 part of BotN my goal is to make it as light as I can and still have it protect the wearer and last to the end of the tournament. Either temper should work just fine for this.

Armour for general ACL use needs to be alot more durable.

Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

[Duke Icefalcon]

You do not want to go too light witht he BoN helms. You need mass to soak up some of the energy of the hits. We are finding the 13 guage stainless or 12 guage mild is a good standard. Lighter than that and you are asking for trouble. Still learning.....

[Gaston de Clermont]

My padding thickness varied, but it was about half an inch all the way round. Some of my dents were about a quarter of an inch deep. This skull never dented in a dozen years of SCA combat, and it picked up 4 dents in 4 days in Poland. I only remember one blow to the face plate because it knocked me flat- honestly it felt like I flew backwards, but the video doesn't agree with that. I think it was with a shield. It didn't leave a mark at all on my 14 gauge 4130 face. The Russians were using steel shield edging covered in leather or raw hide which we didn't think was legal until we got there.

13 gauge with decent padding feels like the ideal mix of weight and protection to me, and I'd certainly do it in spring steel. Practice alone will rip most other materials apart, let alone the brutality of the actual competition.

[Craig Nadler]

Duke Icefalcon:

Sorry, I should have been more specific that my comment was refering to body and limb armour and not helmets.

Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

[Noe]

I've got a guy interested in making a spring steel helmet. What thickness would be good?

[Nissan Maxima]

12 guage top and 14 visor. You want the weight.

[Duke Icefalcon]

Duke Icefalcon:

Sorry, I should have been more specific that my comment was refering to body and limb armour and not helmets.

Best Regards,

Craig Nadler

Understood.