Ideas for Building Sword Crossguards, etc.

[Ogedei]

I am looking for examples of what people have built and ideas on construction.

I am aware windrose and others makes beautiful, functional items. I also understand the shipping nearly doubles the price, and so am looking for alternatives.

Ideas? Examples?

[Caius705]

I've seen rubber hose for radiators split and placed on the sword then heavily reinforced with strapping tape. They are a little floppy but work well. I've seen homemade welded ones, if you can weld.
I've seen rattan quillions on a greatsword. I should have asked him how he attached them. They were very stout. I know this because I stepped inside the circle of his swing and one of them clocked me on the back of the head hard enough to knock me over. Not fun.

I've often though about using dished and layered alluminum or steel riveted together to give an appropriate thickness, for a simple and cheap shop made solution. Hope this helps.

[GvR]

I have made but not yet had a chance to try and destroy a set of quillions from stacked layers of leather. Stacked the long way, using 9oz leather it takes about 7 layers glued together with barge cement. On the inner two layers I left extra leather to cut out a hole for a trigger to be used with gauntlets. I glued the inner layers 5 thick then sewed some stitches in them to help hold them together then glued on the outer two layers to hide the stitches. Over all I taped with gold duct tape. It passes the 10 ft rule very well. (My prototype used black duct tape as that's all I had at the time) Sorry no pics at the moment.

[Ogedei]

I was wondering about the stacked leather actually. Seems like it should be as strong as hose.

I am also considering a chunk of aluminum bar stock and building something with a stock removal technique.....

[Caius705]

Either of those should work. We're not really set up in our armory for stock removal. Takes too long. But the leather should be fine. I would use aluminum since the weight is not that different and the aluminum is substantially cheaper. But if you don't have a good set of beverly shears that might be hard to do.

[losthelm]

Larger thicknesses of aluminum can work ok depending on the tools. A Jigsaw, drill and coarse file can do a small run. Larger tools can remove more material faster but thats not always a good thing.

I would ask at the local scrap yard and machine shops for material.

I think torvaldr was useing stacked leather bits and copper rivets for his daggers... I'm not sure if he was useing his multiwax hardening technique or something else.

a number of people use lathe scraps for pommels often the last 1.5" or so is scrap and the machine shops will let you have it cheap. useing a V block you can then drill a hole for the rattan and decorate it as you see fit.I used a series of 1/8 holes and file to connect them before useing a round bastard file to smooth the socket.
If you have someone with a lathe or access to a shop it should be fairly easy to tool a simple design into the sides or use a vice and die grinder of sometype to dress it up a little. Holding it in one hand and grinding or tooling is asking for an emergency room visit.

Welding bars to 1" Id pipe was common for a while but they can snap if your welds are not sound.
I think it was By my hand designs that was selling them, the ends where clusters of steel balls arranged like Treb ammo, and the bars I think where 1/2" mild steel .

Your realy only limited by safty and your shop and your skill set.
I have three spear pommels one is a golf ball and some JB weld, another is cast lead around a bolt, and the last was pewter... all picked up at pennsic through barter or the lost and found auction.

[Jurgen]

I made myself some hollow stainless ones by welding them up. These are my first design:

viewtopic.php?t=128734

But the pommels are much nicer and shaped like this one from Anshelm: http://www.anshelmarms.com/images/arms/sf-pommel.jpg only it has built in taping forks.

I automated my TIG welder to weld up the pommels, and I'm working on the jigs for the crossguards. I was hoping to have production quantities ready before Christmas, but I'm a little behind my plans. I still haven't figured out what I'm going to charge for them, as I have to pay for the automation equipment and there is still some welding by hand, I get the parts laser cut and they still take more time than I'd like. They'll be at least as expensive as Windrose though.

Jurgen

[benz72]

For very low profile (doesn't extend far beyond the sword rattan) a jigsaw and the new plastic impregnated deck planking from Home Depot can work. A little file work and some spraypaint for aesthetics. Use either a door hole saw or a large diameter bit to bore out a hole for the tang.

They last.... OK, and don't look great but you can make 20 of them in an afternoon at a super cheap per-unit cost.

If you wanted to put more time & effort into it you could afix a steel plate to the front side, but it won't really do that much for you.

The same material cut out with a larger diameter hole saw can make an acceptable pommel.



I've tried the layered barrel plastic with epoxy and hot glue but it looked like the North end of a Southbound chicken with a digestive problem. It kept separating during use so if I were going to attempt it again I'd cut it way oversized, clamp it all together before applying adhesive and bake/relax it in the oven to try getting it all to conform nicely then try gluing it all together and trim it to size. Alternating leather and plastic may also work.

[Paul the Small]

I use a piece of old rattan to make cross guards. I cut it to length, split it in half long ways, and use a flap sander on a side grinder to make a hollow. Then I clamp it, glue it with Goop, and let it set for 24 hours to cure. Use metallic colored duct tape of choice and it looks decent. They're strong, meet requirements, and are (nearly) free if you hoard old rattan like I do.

[Caius705]

Hey paul, you weren't at locktoberfest this month were you?

[Ogedei]

The ideas are good. Looking cool is a definite requirment. If I switch from baskethilt to cross-guard it's gonna need to be bad ass.

Currently wondering about various material laminations, plastics and aluminum with brass for bling.....

[Paul the Small]

Hey paul, you weren't at locktoberfest this month were you?

No, sorry. I haven't been to any events in a couple months. Haven't been to anything outside Gleann Abhann in over a year.

[Caius705]

Was just curious. I mentioned it earlier that someone knocked the crap out of me with a rattan quillion there, his name sounded similar to yours. He probably attached it the same way as you do yours. No worries. You oughta try to make BAM though. Just saying

[Paul the Small]

I'll be at BAM tomorrow night, God willing.

[Caius705]

Kick ass. I'll be there too.

[Jan]

"Back in the day" they used to be made out of the sidewall of tires. They already have that curve and tend to be fairly durable.

[Moose]

I use a piece of old rattan to make cross guards. I cut it to length, split it in half long ways, and use a flap sander on a side grinder to make a hollow. Then I clamp it, glue it with Goop, and let it set for 24 hours to cure. Use metallic colored duct tape of choice and it looks decent. They're strong, meet requirements, and are (nearly) free if you hoard old rattan like I do.

After you split it and have fit it to the rattan, don't attach it right away. Put it back together and tape it up to hold it together. Take it to a belt sander and round the ends. I make a ball shape on the end of mine and taper the crossguard from the center to the ball. The ball end is actually about 240 degrees of a circle. In other words, the ends aren't just rounded in a half circle to smooth out the corners, but brought past that so that there is an actual ball shape and the rattan at the end of the cross guard is smaller than the rattan at the center. I have never had one break on me, and I have used them a lot.

Radu

[Konstantin the Red]

For very low profile (doesn't extend far beyond the sword rattan) a jigsaw and the new plastic impregnated deck planking from Home Depot can work. A little file work and some spraypaint for aesthetics. . . .

The same material cut out with a larger diameter hole saw can make an acceptable pommel.

I take it that deck planking is pretty dense? -- well, some strategic placement of lead in washer shapes or something would enhance that. Comes out fancier than hammering a No. 2 lead fishing weight into a block.

That should work up really fast with passes through a bandsaw of any type to make scentstopper or fishtail pommels.* A little belt sander work to lightly round some of the faces to blend them into the sword grip, et voilà.

*E.g., as on Oakeshott XVII-XIX sword types, pommel types T1 though T5 and V. (AoW, p. 314 et seq) Flat fishtail types probably wouldn't suit -- not heavy enough in planking material.

[Konstantin the Red]

I used to see a lot of automotive-hose crossguards, which with a little strategic taping can at the least have their ends mashed flat and even notched, or built into a later Highland/Island sword with bulbed cross ends. The late mutant form of the lobed pommel of the Viking days can also be sawn out of that deck planking and applied. Entire hilt ends up looking generally )==(} -- it had gone curvy where the Viking originals were straight bars and thus had corners that bit if you do SCA type sword handling. As many as seven lobes, I think? Oakeshott typology pommel type M -- he remarked how this old pommel pattern held on in the Hebrides and wild northwestern places up to the latest fourteenth. (AoW, pp. 224-5)

It's the black rubber hose you get off the reel by the foot. For a crossguard, you'll want eight inches minimum, twelve about maximum. The type has a disadvantage in that longer lengths are boingier.

Such a method would also make good, simple, trouble free and safe 8" Parierhaken for a Zweihänder, particularly in contrast to a crossguard of ironmongery.

[Christophe de Frisselle]

This is what I used till last year. Made by Truehearth. The problem I had was the welds on each side of the socket cracking. It was annoying stopping at the local wielding shop every few months to see if they could fit in a five second job. Then wondering if any other wield or that wield would fail. There wasn't much penetration on the original wields and they were ground down so much I could see the edges of the metal plates.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/o ... directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Q ... directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_ ... directlink

Currently, I'm looking for something similar with sides made of one solid piece or something like this:
http://alturl.com/hsg5f

[Thomas MacFinn]

...I also understand the shipping nearly doubles the price, and so am looking for alternatives.

You may want to explore the accuracy of that. While shipping is high for long items, like spears and great swords, a small flat rate box is only $5.50.

I recently shipped fifty pounds of Hessen hardware from Louisville to Sioux City in two large flat rate boxes for about $30.

http://foxknife.com/store/index.php/har ... uards.html

[Caius705]

...I also understand the shipping nearly doubles the price, and so am looking for alternatives.

You may want to explore the accuracy of that. While shipping is high for long items, like spears and great swords, a small flat rate box is only $5.50.

I recently shipped fifty pounds of Hessen hardware from Louisville to Sioux City in two large flat rate boxes for about $30.

http://foxknife.com/store/index.php/har ... uards.html

This is a fair point. I had a shield basket and a tsuba sent to me, shipping was $9 dollars. Ordered em from CLANG armory. They were pretty nice. The guy knows how to make a good weld.

[Johann ColdIron]

I'm still using a great sword cross guard I made about 20 years ago out of sections of bike tire. Thick off road tire on the out side and road tires on the inside with a hole in the center of the wear surface for the rattan. Probably about 4 layers. Strapping tape tightens up the assembly and keeps it from wobbling.

[Ogedei]

...I also understand the shipping nearly doubles the price, and so am looking for alternatives.

You may want to explore the accuracy of that. While shipping is high for long items, like spears and great swords, a small flat rate box is only $5.50.

I recently shipped fifty pounds of Hessen hardware from Louisville to Sioux City in two large flat rate boxes for about $30.

http://foxknife.com/store/index.php/har ... uards.html

I'm in Canada, not sure there is flat shipping across the border?

[Thomas MacFinn]

A Priority Mail® International Small Flat Rate Box is $12.95

[Sigurd]

yep Og, just avoid the UPS and fedex like the plague. USPS and CanPost play quite nicely together. Or there is the unofficial method, especially if you're planning on coming down for Ursulmas or something.

[Christophe de Frisselle]

When I got my cross hilt from True hearth it was only 10 dollars shipping.

[losthelm]

A lot depends on weight and size of the box.
Shipping to Canada is down right reasonable for first class under 4 lbs.

Ups and FedEx are expencive and then you have customs fees, brokerage charge.
If you have to deal with anything more than the customs declaration form it's good to have a broker.