Peace bonding and peace tying

[scott2978]

Does anyone know the historical origin of peace tying weapons? Is it only a 20th century faire/convention practice or was it done historically?

[MediumAevum]

I'm going to guess that it isn't medieval as there are lots of rules and laws about carrying of weapons in late medieval England and I've never seen tying come up.

[Sean Powell]

I have no evidence to support or refute but what peasant would be carrying a sword and what self respecing nobleman would consent to tying his sword in place? Almost everyone has a knife or sharp object conveniently available, either on their person or as a tool of their trade. To what purpose is the tying of weapons when a makeshift weapon is readily available? I suspect it is a modern convention.

Sean

[hrolf]

I first encountered the practice among cosplayers at anime conventions. I'm chalking that one up to "the site makes us do this so we don't get sued" modernism.

[Dan Howard]

I've seen the concept used in a few fantasy novels but have never come across the practice historically. Sean's arguments against it are compelling.

[Caius705]

Stupid question, but seeing as well over 99% of the weapons I've seen at events (both SCA and otherwise) have been swords, what do they do for maces/war hammers, ie, weapons without a scabbard? Tie them to the belt? Just curious.

[hrolf]

At anime cons, you peacebind your bokken, too! I have no idea why a club is suddenly not dangerous because it's got a ziptie on the handle, but there we are.

[Len Parker]

Is this the same as the fridbond (peace strings) tied to viking swords in the sagas?

[Caius705]

At anime cons, you peacebind your bokken, too! I have no idea why a club is suddenly not dangerous because it's got a ziptie on the handle, but there we are.

And when the zip tie takes an eye with it, suddenly you're the bad guy. "No officer, I just wanted to hit him in the skull. The eye is not my fault"

[EnglishSteel]

Considering the huge numbers of murders by stabbing that occur throughout the middle ages, if they did use them, they weren't very effective...

[Baron Alcyoneus]

Is this the same as the fridbond (peace strings) tied to viking swords in the sagas?

Well, what do you know...

http://books.google.com/books?id=WNRBAA ... nd&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=HLwnRG ... nd&f=false

[Dan Howard]

Interesting. Would also help explain the small rings that were attached to some pommels. The peace string could be threaded through the ring and around the scabbard.

[Cap'n Atli]

Scadians have been big on it since at least when they lurked onto the East Coast. A few of our folks were turned away at the door to a Scadian event because they didn't trust us and our "live steel."

We had known about it in the Norse context; but we figured that if you trusted someone to swing a sword at you in a battle reenactment, puting a "peace bond" on a sword any other time was just silly. In a system based on loyalty and trust, it certainly didn't show much trust.

[RandallMoffett]

I wonder if this was tied more to symbolic gestures. Didn't the Romans have bundles of wood rods around an axe as a show of peace? As well the second link is clear it does not seem to have happened.

RPM

[Baron Alcyoneus]

It doesn't say it wasn't done, it shows that it was- just that it wasn't terribly effective on its own, on preventing someone intent on doing harm from actually harming someone.

[Russ Mitchell]

I hew to Sean's take here. I don't know the Scandinavian context for these, but if somebody tried to tell me as a noble that I had to tie my sword, I would take it not merely as a personal insult, but also a political one. "Bad things" would result.

[Sean Powell]

Scadians have been big on it since at least when they lurked onto the East Coast. A few of our folks were turned away at the door to a Scadian event because they didn't trust us and our "live steel."

We had known about it in the Norse context; but we figured that if you trusted someone to swing a sword at you in a battle reenactment, puting a "peace bond" on a sword any other time was just silly. In a system based on loyalty and trust, it certainly didn't show much trust.

???? Really? Not with any SCAdians I know but it's a big world and some people seem to enjoy shouldering the responsibility of keeping people safe from themselves. Sorry that this happened.

Sean

[Baron Alcyoneus]

It isn't necessarily "keeping you safe from yourself" as the idiot walking by you that decides he wants to pull your sword out. I'm not terribly worried about that at an SCA event, but a renfair? Sure. In general, it is just dumb.

[chef de chambre]

Interesting. Would also help explain the small rings that were attached to some pommels. The peace string could be threaded through the ring and around the scabbard.

I believe these are found on swords with Frankish associations. Said rings were for swearing binding oaths. A cultural, rather than a strictly practical purpose.

[chef de chambre]

I wonder if this was tied more to symbolic gestures. Didn't the Romans have bundles of wood rods around an axe as a show of peace? As well the second link is clear it does not seem to have happened.

RPM

Nope. The bundle of rods symbolized the right of the official they were borne before to order corporal punishment, and the axe symbolized the right to order capital punishment.

[Derian le Breton]

Scadians have been big on it since at least when they lurked onto the East Coast.

In my 13 years in the SCA I've seen this practice precisely once.

-Derian.

[RandallMoffett]

Hmmm. I'm out only one I could think of.

[Cap'n Atli]

Scadians have been big on it since at least when they lurked onto the East Coast. A few of our folks were turned away at the door to a Scadian event because they didn't trust us and our "live steel."

We had known about it in the Norse context; but we figured that if you trusted someone to swing a sword at you in a battle reenactment, puting a "peace bond" on a sword any other time was just silly. In a system based on loyalty and trust, it certainly didn't show much trust.

???? Really? Not with any SCAdians I know but it's a big world and some people seem to enjoy shouldering the responsibility of keeping people safe from themselves. Sorry that this happened.

Sean

Hey, it would have been about 40+ years ago; things were different back then. I remember one Lady referred to us as "violent egalitarians."

Scadian friends from the West Kingdom always contended that the East Kingdom was the tightest of the up-tight. Probably too many university grads and not enough hippies.

[olaf haraldson]

You need to visit my part of the East. I think you'd fit in.

[RandallMoffett]

Atli,

violent egalitarians.... that is classic! I'd get a name badge with that on it....

RPM