The War Shouldn't Be Over in June

[olaf haraldson]

Yeah, but different... that was a case of the East and Middle allying.
Aethelmearc saying "Eff this, get off our lawn!" would be pretty epic...

[Diglach Mac Cein]

We need a bit more "theater" in Pennsic.

[Gregoire de Lyon]

We need a bit more "theater" in Pennsic.

We need a bit more theater in the SCA.

We all are loathe to accept the label of LARP, however I think that more theatrics would greatly increase the enjoyment of most everything we do, particularly court and tournaments. Embrace your persona and act out the script that is in your head - the worst that can happen is someone will laugh at you and you hit them with a stick as revenge.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

We need a bit more theater in the SCA.

That too.

[CTrumbore]

yay, pennsic-con.

[olaf haraldson]

http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Fantasy- ... 2C+michael

We need a bit more "theater" in Pennsic.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

yay, pennsic-con.

"More theater" doesn't have to mean walking around like a cosplay.

Hiding/disguising modern stuff.
Heralds at the list field.
Not walking around with headphones on.
Banners.
Music from period style instruments at court, or feasts.
Calling a Knight "Sir Timothy", not "Hey Tim!"

You know, giving a crap.

[CTrumbore]

yay, pennsic-con.

"More theater" doesn't have to mean walking around like a cosplay.

Hiding/disguising modern stuff.
Heralds at the list field.
Not walking around with headphones on.
Banners.
Music from period style instruments at court, or feasts.
Calling a Knight "Sir Timothy", not "Hey Tim!"

You know, giving a crap.

And you are more than welcome to do that. Just be careful to dodge the golf carts while you are bowing in the street to Sir Timothy.. ;P

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Golf carts at ONE event.

With 12K people spread out over how many acres? And it isn't like everyone has a cart.

But hey, if the fact some member of the staff has a golf cart is a good reason for you to hang out in jeans and a tunic while wearing your Beats headphones and sitting on a cooler, good on you.

[CTrumbore]

Thanks! I will!

I paid the same amount to get in as you did.. I agreed to the same restrictions you did.. I failed to see ANYWHERE where it said "thou must be period at all times, and conform to some person on the Internet's vision of perfection". It says "sca regulations" which, in turn, say "an attempt". Not "reasonable attempt" Not "good attempt" not "vetted attempt".

WHEN Pennsic becomes more than a giant con, we'll discuss garb restrictions. Until it does, and until the fringe groups who have nothing to do with the SCA whatsoever are told their coin is no good there, nothing is ever going to change. I've given up on beating that particular necrotic equine, as it's utterly pointless.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

I've given up on beating that particular necrotic equine, as it's utterly pointless.

Really? Sure doesn't seem that way.

And yeah, I would have ZERO problem with telling non-SCA people "Nope." - Even if it meant paying more for Pennsic.

But until then, a positive step is a positive step - even if it is a small one.

And it doesn't even have to be at Pennsic!

[CTrumbore]

I've been somewhat entertained watching the whining and moaning over Pennsic this year. It's led me to understand what a bloody entitled lot many of us seem to consider ourselves, when it comes to a bunch of people working their asses off so we can enjoy a vacation.

Whining about having a day "stolen". Whining about the date changes. Whining about volunteers who want to, you know, get home on Sunday too, after having been there for three weeks, working constantly. Whining about "restrictions" emplaced because some groups simply will NOT clean up after themselves, after being warned time and time again. Whining about new policies created specifically to deal with those groups. Whining about "pausing" the war for Archery Champions for a *gasp* WHOLE DAY. (I guess there's nothing more to Pennsic than fighting, for some folks). Whining about this and whining about that.

Oddly, very few of the whiners have put in 150+ hours of volunteer work at an event they payed to get into. Very few have stayed "as long as it takes" to clean up after the problem children. Very few want to hang around and take down the tents, pack up the stage, take up the road markers, remove miles of stakes and string, etc, and leave the site "as we found it". They want to drink their asses off, pack their crap, and get out of dodge, and leave it to someone else, then take umbrage when "someone else" changes the game so fewer people have to play nursemaid and change the bums of the whiny brats.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Glad you are amused.

[CTrumbore]

Oh.. and whining that everyone else isn't forced to look the way they think they should look.. that's the most amusing part.

[Baron Logan]

Epic thread derail.

I volunteer Diglach to clean it up.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Anyway...

I think it would be difficult, but not impossible to lessen the "300" factor. But you are going up against a lot of history and tradition.

.

[Apollonian]

Maerick and CT,

Be topical or get the fuck off my thread.

Falcone

[CTrumbore]

Oh Noes.. da thread police..


topical? Okay, here: Stop worrying about who "wins". It's fucking meaningless. There's war points for everything from shopping to volunteering to archery to henna tattoos now. It's not a "war". It's a big goddamn tournament melee silliness, and the REASON it's "over" in November, for all intents and purposes, is because people take some chuffed up, stupid, "Win" as more important than having a good time, fighting your best, and showing your prowess.

The few years they have tried to do things to tone down the idiocy over who "wins" or "unfair sides" or all the other whining have met with.. resistance, at best. So as long as people keep worrying about who "wins", as if it actually means something, then people will be spending real world money to make sure they "win" at all costs.

Oddly, some of the stories of the most awesome fighting, and some of the cleanest fighting, have often been after "it doesn't matter anymore". As long as you have "we gotta WIN THE WAR" jugheads out there, there will be issues, both on and off the field.

Fix the mentality that who wins "the war" is all important, rather than that each fighter strives to do his or her best, and you will fix the problems.

[mordreth]

Maerick and CT,

Be topical or get the fuck off my thread.

Falcone

Way past unnecessary as a reaction

[Apollonian]

Agreed.

Falcone

[Askold]

On one hand I would think that the "easy" solution would be something like this:

Merc units and kingdoms are asked wether they wish to go to side A, side B or remain unaligned and how many fighters they are bringing. Then before the war you could do a estimation on the amount of fighters that each side will have and then divide the unaligned units so that the sides are approximately even.

I would do this according the units rather than individual fighters since that would require less counting and it's easier to say "Calontir to side A Trimaris to side B etc." than divide and notify each individual fighter.

On the other hand I don't know how much support this type of arragement would have. I bet that there are a lot of people who LIKE the politics and behind the scenes scheming that happens right now, or are simply so concentrated on "winning" that they don't want to lose any advantage.

[DukeAvery]

Falcone

One very effective solution I have seen at smaller wars is if one side is getting repeatedly stomped then some knights would cross the field to balance the sides after it was clear one side was dominating. Somebody gets to be the "winner" but the "losing" side doesn't have to suffer a disparity of forces for the entire day of [sca stick] fighting. This last may be fun for some (I've had great fun holding a gap in a target rich environment) but it isn't for everyone. Call me naive but I always cared that as many people within reason were having a fun time. When you are King, then it becomes your responsibility in my opinion.

Pennsic is too big for that solution but perhaps if a new tradition was started allowing one king or the other to concede the war and go to balance sides it would change things. I would think in that scenario the kings on both (all?) sides would want to avoid that outcome which should effect how the side forming plays out. Instead of engineering an overwhelming victory months in advance, the best outcome would be win by a nose. This would make for good times.

Just throwing some ideas out for the sake of conversation. I'm going to try to make it out next year my friend.

Regards
Avery

[Donal Mac Ruiseart]

Negotiations should be done ...
1. face to face between the reigning monarchs.
2. through appointed emissaries.
3. not using modern technology.

You want to align yourself with the King of Drachenwald? Fly to an event where the King will be in attendance.

To the best of my knowledge, air travel is a modern construct. . . .

[BdeB]

"Conceding the war points" has been done and that didn't work either, and pissed a lot of folks off. I'm not sure what the solution is at this point.

[Askold]

Negotiations should be done ...
1. face to face between the reigning monarchs.
2. through appointed emissaries.
3. not using modern technology.

You want to align yourself with the King of Drachenwald? Fly to an event where the King will be in attendance.

To the best of my knowledge, air travel is a modern construct. . . .

Well if you build a really big trebuchet...

[CTrumbore]

"Conceding the war points" has been done and that didn't work either, and pissed a lot of folks off. I'm not sure what the solution is at this point.

Well, some people need to get it through their melons that Pennsic (and all the wars, really) are more than just fighter events. Yes, yes, I know they started off that way, 40 mumble years ago, but it has evolved. There's rapier and archery and siege and all manner of other "things" for people to compete in.

Plus, it simply doesn't matter, does it? Yay, you won, you now have, well, nothing that the side who lost don't have, whoop!

[BdeB]

yup and it sucked.

[Johann ColdIron]

"Conceding the war points" has been done and that didn't work either, and pissed a lot of folks off. I'm not sure what the solution is at this point.

I'd suggest that for senarios that there are multiples of like Bridges and Field that the first one be for the war point and actually go off ON TIME. Brings urgency to the muster and rewards the side that fields the most on time. After that one is run the rest of them have the sides evened out and not for points.

Either that or have every battle a 2-3 hour resurrection with random time checks for points. That way you have to plan relief columns and other logistics to keep enough folks on the field to hold the objectives.

[Haldan]

Gentlemen:

The solution to all the bellyaching is obvious!

Just attend Gulf Wars!



Haldan

[Alex Baird]

We need a bit more "theater" in Pennsic.

We need a bit more theater in the SCA.

The motto of the Barony of Altavia is "Theatre, not Drama."

[DukeAvery]

There's really nothing wrong with wanting an exciting and competitive war, one that isn't decided months in advance.

What do the tactics of disparagement say about the wielder?

Regards
Avery

[Jonny Deuteronomy]

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Sun Tzu

[Iain (Bunny) Ruadh]

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Sun Tzu

This. All else is drama within' royal theater.

Those who suspect otherwise should ask closely of those they follow.

[Gorm]

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Sun Tzu

Sure...but it makes for a really boring Melee event....

[Iain (Bunny) Ruadh]

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Sun Tzu

Sure...but it makes for a really boring Melee event....

Agreed .. but your Crown says otherwise.