What is the evidence for this sugarloaf?

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:08 pm

I've seen this helmet in reconstructions and modern illustrations.
Yet I've never seen it in an effigy or medieval artwork.

Is there any evidence for this helmet? Has any SCA armourer ever made one?

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:32 pm

Can't lay my finger on it but I thought original source was manuscript illumination. Not an overwhelmingly common helm, but... and you might inquire for documentation where that image is on server, at MyArmoury.com. Jason's very solid about not putting up bad examples, and about trying to set forth historical types on his site insofar as these are known.

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:11 pm

Looks to be based on the Staunton helm, which appears as a line drawing in Blair's European Armour.
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/732/1007/

From Blair:
http://www.liebaart.org/helm/215.gif

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Cool. That's a bingo.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:58 pm

Vladimir wrote: Has any SCA armourer ever made one?

Vladimir,

Do you mean a good one, or one that just bears the same name?

Lots of folks make sugarloaf helms. They range from the good to the bad and the ugly. I have seen many that were clearly intended to look like the one in the Staunton grave slab, but I am not sure I have ever seen one that really captures the lines well.

Mac

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:06 pm

The little ring on the top is obviously for attaching a crest or scarf.

: BNF Latin 15158 fo057v-1.jpg (23.96 KiB) Viewed 354 times

: BNF Français 146 fo040r.jpg (45.9 KiB) Viewed 354 times

"Sugarloaf" helnets is a broad category. If the artwork is to be trusted there are a number of construction variations of these pointed- or ogival-topped helms. Although the helm is largely obscured beneath his head, the Trumpington brass doesn't seem to show any seams between plates along the back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trump ... _brass.jpg

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:00 pm

Mac wrote: Vladimir,

Do you mean a good one, or one that just bears the same name?

Lots of folks make sugarloaf helms. They range from the good to the bad and the ugly. I have seen many that were clearly intended to look like the one in the Staunton grave slab, but I am not sure I have ever seen one that really captures the lines well.

Mac

Funny thing is I actually prefer the curved forhead of the reproduction to the flatter lines in the effigy.

I meant are there any pictures of SCA legal attempts at that particular helmet. Not sugarloafs in general.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:06 pm

Vladimir wrote:I meant are there any pictures of SCA legal attempts at that particular helmet.

As it stands in the artwork, all it wants to be Lists-legal is sufficient thickness of metal. Why do you ask for pix of repros? What is it you seek, and why?

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:22 pm

Curiosity. Just to know what is out there. That is my favorite sugarloaf and if I ever got one I would want one like that. But only if I could see that it was a historic style rather than a made up fantasy piece.

I'm not in the market, otherwise I would have been asking on the classified page.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:43 pm

Vladimir wrote:
Mac wrote: Vladimir,

Do you mean a good one, or one that just bears the same name?

Lots of folks make sugarloaf helms. They range from the good to the bad and the ugly. I have seen many that were clearly intended to look like the one in the Staunton grave slab, but I am not sure I have ever seen one that really captures the lines well.

Mac
Funny thing is I actually prefer the curved forhead of the reproduction to the flatter lines in the effigy.

I meant are there any pictures of SCA legal attempts at that particular helmet. Not sugarloafs in general.

My apologies, Vladimir. I misunderstood your question.

Mac

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:29 pm

Vladimir wrote:Curiosity. Just to know what is out there. That is my favorite sugarloaf and if I ever got one I would want one like that. But only if I could see that it was a historic style rather than a made up fantasy piece.

I'm not in the market, otherwise I would have been asking on the classified page.

Aha, puzzlement dispelled.

The situation seemed to be so much one of "Of course somebody's making one for sale and for the SCA! Or they could, with on-estimate delivery yet. How the hell not?" The whole, um, above-median end of the armor world knows how to make helms.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:11 pm

Years ago Steve Forth was having some made in 14ga stainless and brass. Ive got one. It is pretty sweet. I have not seen one available in a long time.

Old Armourer · Post by **Old Armourer** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:04 am

text removed

Ironbadger · Post by **Ironbadger** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:27 am

I've always loved that helm.

The two piece greathelm made in a single front and back- I keep thinking I've seen it in effigies before, but I could easily be wrong, since I cannot think of a specific example to save my life.

I've though of making one of these for myself in 14 gauge.
I don't care if its a document provable design or not.
Its just damn cool, with sexy lines.

-Badger-

What is the evidence for this sugarloaf?

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