Shaffron

[marcos.blues]

Hello Friends,

While I do not find inspiration to continue Gauntlet Armour Sigismund I'm spending time with these pieces.
Still have to do some adjusting.
Feel free to criticize.

[marcos.blues]

Continuing

[marcos.blues]

Continuing

[marcos.blues]

Continuing

[Ckanite]

Oh that purdey!!! I really like that whole nasal section! And reason for the roped addition of just for show?

[Vermillion]

All I can say is ..... WOW

Marcos, did you make that for a horse, or did you make it as a decorative piece?

[marcos.blues]

All I can say is ..... WOW

Marcos, did you make that for a horse, or did you make it as a decorative piece?

Only decorative.
However , be sure to make your observations as you would for a horse to use .
This may help someone .

[Signo]

Wow, actually I don't like horses nor chanfrons, but this is one of the best I've seen.

[Ckanite]

I think if it were for a real horse you would want a little more shape in the cheek plates near the ears and maybe have it not at quite that angle, hard to tell from the pics though. Did you make those hinges yourself?

[RoundTop]

My only concern on a real horse would be the weight of the horn. it may cause balance issues on the head. Reducing the length should help this, or hollowing it out.

[Tom B.]

I think you have a good start.
There are however a few points to make note of.

1. There should be some more shape from top to bottom.
Yours looks too flat, look at the side view below.
2. Deeper curve side to side along the lower half of the center piece.
3. Side plates also need to be curved deeper.
4. When looking straight on from the front note the curved shape of the sides (RA example)
Yours looks straight. I think you were maybe too worried about the hinge movement, all of you hinges are in a line.
I think that there is not much movement on the real one, look at how the hinge pins don't align.
It will only need to open a small amount to come on and take off.
5. Flare at the bottom over the nose, looks unusual to me. I know that there is quite a bit of variation in the real ones, is there one you were trying to copy?

I am sure you would have benefited from these photos earlier.
Feel free to ask for photos before you start a piece in the future

Photos I took at the RA Leeds in 2007

[Tom B.]

My only concern on a real horse would be the weight of the horn. it may cause balance issues on the head. Reducing the length should help this, or hollowing it out.

I wouldn't worry about the horn.
Its weight will be insubstantial compared to the rest of the piece.

[RoundTop]

looking again, I missed on my size estimation of the piece. The pics of the original put it more in perspective.

[Cap'n Atli]

I ran this by Drey, one of our Horse Guild members (and longship crew) explaining that it was a decorative piece:

"WOW.

I really can't add much here except to say I'm impressed with the
work. The only thing that came to mind as I read the thread was that
any Chanfron would need to be fitted and that the artist might want to
go and look at a real horse to see the natural contours of the
animal's head."

[marcos.blues]

Hello friends,

Well
Roundtop, in relation to the horn, I believe that it does not weigh much if used in horse or fighting because this horn is not solid material, it was forged in carbon steel plate 16 Gauge

Cranite, thanks for watching the lateral angle you well noted. The photos that TOM published, show this very well.
Tom, thanks for the photos. They really help me in making the Crinet. I will also be investigating the possibility of improving this same project, all your observations and those of other colleagues.

I'm also thinking of two possibilities of action and would like the opinion of you:

1 - Complete this project only as a simple decorative Shaffron and as a principle of learning;

2 - Start another project taking into account all these comments made here.

Many thanks to all who contributed.

It is through criticism and comments from you that I very enriqueço my knowledge and my work .

[Ckanite]

Marcos, if that horn was forged from plate, I would love to see how you did so! Honestly, I think this would be best as a simple, decorative shaffron. I think that the way you have everything shaped as of now that it would be far too much work for the benefit. That being said, I would LOVE to see you take the time and make one more anatomically correct. You have the eye for it no doubt, you just need a willing subject from which to take your measurements. Make sure you have flowing lines as opposed to straight rigid ones, also note how the wrapper plates underlap the face plate. They are not flush as you have done. This was probably done to get things to a) line up nicer and b) to provide more of a glancing surface.

[Johann ColdIron]

4. When looking straight on from the front note the curved shape of the sides (RA example)
Yours looks straight. I think you were maybe too worried about the hinge movement, all of you hinges are in a line.
I think that there is not much movement on the real one, look at how the hinge pins don't align.

Another thing to note is the use of single rivet hinge attachements on the original. That allows the hinge to pivot and find its own best alignment when opening. You see them often on pairs of hinges that do not share a plane like on Vambraces and Cased Greaves.

[Tom B.]

http://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=shaffron

There are quite a few good examples to look through in the above link.

[marcos.blues]

Hello friends,

Excuse the delay in answering them.

I made some adjustments.
See how it's getting.
I still stay with some doubts about the ears. There is some detail on them?
In the pictures I received from Tom, I could not see how they are.

Feel the urge to criticize and suggest.

Thank you ..

[marcos.blues]

Continuing...

[Ckanite]

WOW! That's a hell of a lot better! Jolly well done marcos! That really looks like it can go on a horse now. I still have a few questions though. 1) as previously stated, how did you make the horn? 2) What purpose is that added plate over the nasal? I see it on a bunch of s/chaffrons but I've never been able to discern the purpose...

[marcos.blues]

WOW! That's a hell of a lot better! Jolly well done marcos! That really looks like it can go on a horse now. I still have a few questions though. 1) as previously stated, how did you make the horn? 2) What purpose is that added plate over the nasal? I see it on a bunch of s/chaffrons but I've never been able to discern the purpose...

Dear Ckanite,

Answer - 1.
Regarding the making of the horn, I will prepare and publish a short video here on the forum. I'll be happy to do that.
Answer - 2.
I know not the meaning of nasal additional card.
I'm not knowledgeable on the subject, unfortunately.
I also saw this card in several models and I found it interesting, so I applied the shaffron.
I'll research the issue. On success will also publish here immediately.
I inspired myself on image-1

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

I have a strong suspicion that on the Royal Armouries example, that the diamond shaped riveted on plate covers a large hole.

[marcos.blues]

Marcos, if that horn was forged from plate, I would love to see how you did so! Honestly, I think this would be best as a simple, decorative shaffron. I think that the way you have everything shaped as of now that it would be far too much work for the benefit. That being said, I would LOVE to see you take the time and make one more anatomically correct. You have the eye for it no doubt, you just need a willing subject from which to take your measurements. Make sure you have flowing lines as opposed to straight rigid ones, also note how the wrapper plates underlap the face plate. They are not flush as you have done. This was probably done to get things to a) line up nicer and b) to provide more of a glancing surface.

Friend Ckanite

Answering your request, the video address of the Shaffron horn crafting is linked to this message.
Although it's the second time i make it, there are still some defects, but I'm happy with the result.
The plate used was a 16 gauge. I believe that using a 14 gauge is better because it's better to prune.

Thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcnfXbGVq_Q

[Tom B.]

Nicely done, both the work & the video!
Nice workshop as well.

[Zanetto]

Marcos,

Well done! Thanks for showing us how you forged the horn. I suspected you used heat. Nice video.

Rob

[marcos.blues]

Continuing with Crinet.

[marcos.blues]

Continuing with Crinet

[David]

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

[Ckanite]

That is coming along handsomely! And thank you very much for the video! That answered everything!!!

[Rodney]

Nice work Marcos! I enjoy watching the progression of your work from post to post.

You got some serious hammer skills going on down in Brazil.

[marcos.blues]

Evolution - Crinet,

[marcos.blues]

It's almost done.
Missing only the inner lining.

[marcos.blues]

Continuing ..

[marcos.blues]

Continuing ..