Mac, I have the same problem. I have a stand in our living room. It has a breastplate, helmet and a cape. The rest is hidden behind our T.V. The woman swears that it's looking at her all the time. So.... I put a hat on it as well.Mac wrote:One hundred and two gumdrops in the armorer's candy dish.
Once I finished the rivets, progress went quickly on the lower sub-assembly of the pouldrons.
Somehow, the attrition of the shoulders has made a big change in the way the armor looks on the stand. I now find that I have to keep turning it around so it does not seem to stare at me.
Mac
Dusting off the cobwebs
- Ckanite
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Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
It is a bit creepy, isn't it?! It was an attempt at a self portrait. I'd never carved a head before, and I didn't leave enough material to make the eyes properly round.Ckanite wrote:Your creep factor is much higher with that head you have on your mannequin. Where did you get that anyway?
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
If you have read that much at once, you deserve a beer and perhaps a snack as well as a lie down.Tableau wrote:I haven't had much time to read your thread over the last few months, but I just spent the last 3 or 4 hours catching up. Holy Mackerel!
I need to go lie down.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Thank you!Zubeydah wrote:I'm not an armorer, nor am I a wearer of armor. But this thread is one of the very few things that keeps me visiting the Archive - to see the progress of this astonishing work of art.
I try to keep it full of human drama.... sort of like Charlton Heston as Michelangelo Buonarroti.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
This morning, I got the straps, buckles, and hinged riveted onto the the vambrace parts....

...and got them riveted together.

The next step was to fit up the elbows. As usual, the temporary straps served as a guide to making the permanent ones.

Riveting the straps and buckles onto the elbows went smoothly enough. The only trouble was finding a way to support the strap rivet without endangering the surface of the elbow. That involved setting my tin block on a RR track so that the elbow wings were clear. That may be a taste of things to come, and the final assembly may require a similar trick but with more juggling.

Mac
...and got them riveted together.
The next step was to fit up the elbows. As usual, the temporary straps served as a guide to making the permanent ones.
Riveting the straps and buckles onto the elbows went smoothly enough. The only trouble was finding a way to support the strap rivet without endangering the surface of the elbow. That involved setting my tin block on a RR track so that the elbow wings were clear. That may be a taste of things to come, and the final assembly may require a similar trick but with more juggling.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
I got the arms done this evening.

The brass caps the Rene K. sent me look pretty nice on the bessagews.

I've got the gauntlet cuff buckles all assembled and gilt. Tomorrow I will start putting the gauntlets together.
Mac
The brass caps the Rene K. sent me look pretty nice on the bessagews.
I've got the gauntlet cuff buckles all assembled and gilt. Tomorrow I will start putting the gauntlets together.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
The cuff parts were made up as sub-assemblies.

Here, the wrist lames and metacarpals are shown with their lining strips and hinges riveted in place.

This is where I will stop for the moment.

The next step on the gauntlets will be to assemble the finger plates onto the finger leathers. More anon....
Mac
Here, the wrist lames and metacarpals are shown with their lining strips and hinges riveted in place.
This is where I will stop for the moment.
The next step on the gauntlets will be to assemble the finger plates onto the finger leathers. More anon....
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
- J.G.Elmslie
- Archive Member
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- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:03 am
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Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Needs a pair of googly eyes stuck to the mannequin's face...Mac wrote: Somehow, the attrition of the shoulders has made a big change in the way the armor looks on the stand. I now find that I have to keep turning it around so it does not seem to stare at me.
Also, that harness is now getting quite obscenely beautiful.
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Hmmm... I just did a google search for stick on googly eyes, and it seems I can get them in a variety of sizes.J.G.Elmslie wrote:
Needs a pair of googly eyes stuck to the mannequin's face...![]()
Thank you!J.G.Elmslie wrote:Also, that harness is now getting quite obscenely beautiful.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Here's what my temporary leathers look like for the digits. The fingers are still attached to the strip that goes into the knuckle plate. I did not think it was worth bothering to harden that, so I just left the leather attached and set them aside. The left finger leathers still have the leftover rivet stubs from the temporary assembly.

I thought that the easiest way to start this process was with the thumbs. I took the temporary leathers, and used them to make up a template that includes any changes I thought I needed. In this case, it was mostly just adding a bit more sewing margin around the tips. The rivets are #4 carpet tacks. Where the are peened up on black plates, I have colored them with a dab of Oxpho Blue. Where that are against gold steel, I have left them white.

I bolted the thumbs in place to see how they will look. I will probably not rivet them until I have the fingers attached and sewn to the gloves.

Tomorrow I will start in with the same procedure on the fingers. I'll probably start with the little fingers and work toward the first fingers. This will let me get more done before I run out of gold solution....which I surely will before I get all the knuckles done. I ordered some more solutionfrom Rio Grande yesterday, and they say I'll have it by Friday.
Mac
I thought that the easiest way to start this process was with the thumbs. I took the temporary leathers, and used them to make up a template that includes any changes I thought I needed. In this case, it was mostly just adding a bit more sewing margin around the tips. The rivets are #4 carpet tacks. Where the are peened up on black plates, I have colored them with a dab of Oxpho Blue. Where that are against gold steel, I have left them white.
I bolted the thumbs in place to see how they will look. I will probably not rivet them until I have the fingers attached and sewn to the gloves.
Tomorrow I will start in with the same procedure on the fingers. I'll probably start with the little fingers and work toward the first fingers. This will let me get more done before I run out of gold solution....which I surely will before I get all the knuckles done. I ordered some more solutionfrom Rio Grande yesterday, and they say I'll have it by Friday.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
- Otto von Teich
- Archive Member
- Posts: 17388
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2000 2:01 am
- Location: The Great State of Texas.
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Mac, About how many square inches of plating can you get from a single bottle? Looks to be about a gram and a half of pure gold per bottle.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- Ckanite
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Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Mac, you're really tempting me to buy a gold plating machine now...
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
That's a good question, but hard to answer. A lot depends on how thickly you apply it. I started the project with one full bottle, and one that was about 1/4 full. Currently, I have less than 1/4 of a bottle. So, what you can see in the pics was gilt with the contents of just over one bottle. Each of the rivets got two dips of the pen, but one dip might have been enough. It's hard to tell over brass, because the color is similar.Otto von Teich wrote:Mac, About how many square inches of plating can you get from a single bottle? Looks to be about a gram and a half of pure gold per bottle.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
I'm using the plating penfrom Rio Grande. There may well be cheaper pens out there that work just as well. The one I made when I was starting out used a stainless ferule to hold the felt, in place of the more expensive platinum one the Rio pen has. That was a bust.Ckanite wrote:Mac, you're really tempting me to buy a gold plating machine now...
I tried their system years ago, but found that it didn't have enough poop for doing what I was doing. Any 0 to 15volt variable power supply will do the trick. It will not have the convenient little cup holder, but it will be more versatile and an lot cheaper. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I find that I can't get good results at the lower voltages that Rio recommends. Most of my plating happens at between 8 and 12 volts. Above 12 it's easy to "burn" the gold. Below 8 it's slow to happen and the results are very pale. Perhaps things are different when you plate onto precious metals.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
- Ckanite
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Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Do you plate to just the steel or is there a pre-metal plate treatment? Would it help to plate with a copper solution first?
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
This particular solution will plate directly over steel (even slightly greasy steel) and that's what keeps me using it. I'm sure that I would get better results and a more durable plating if I laid down copper and then nickle, but that's a lot more trouble.
I'm not suggesting that my procedure is the best, but it is convenient. There is probably a lot to be learned from the guys who do custom car plating, but I am hoping someone else will do that bit of research and then just tell me
Mac
I'm not suggesting that my procedure is the best, but it is convenient. There is probably a lot to be learned from the guys who do custom car plating, but I am hoping someone else will do that bit of research and then just tell me
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
- Ckanite
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Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Mac, if I had the time and money, I would love to! maybe after my channel grows a bit I might be able to wrangle a sponsorship deal and get to play with their things 
-
Tom B.
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Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Mac,
It is great to see the final assembly progressing.
Massimo has never looked so grand, I am sure he will be sad to see the armour go.
Your last few pages have brought up a couple of questions about one of my own pieces.
I have accidentally knocked off one of my soldered on brass rivet caps.
Do you think it is possible to replace this in situ or would it just be best to remove the rivet and replace it?
The problem is that I am certain that I do not have any matching rivets to replace this one.
I guess that since it is one piece I should just remove the rivet and get it over with.
I can easily just make a matching rivet if needed.
The second question is about plating.
I am tempted to try and plate some pieces that are already installed, is this sheer folly?
Mainly brass rivet caps, any thoughts?
It is great to see the final assembly progressing.
Massimo has never looked so grand, I am sure he will be sad to see the armour go.
Your last few pages have brought up a couple of questions about one of my own pieces.
I have accidentally knocked off one of my soldered on brass rivet caps.
Do you think it is possible to replace this in situ or would it just be best to remove the rivet and replace it?
The problem is that I am certain that I do not have any matching rivets to replace this one.
I guess that since it is one piece I should just remove the rivet and get it over with.
I can easily just make a matching rivet if needed.
The second question is about plating.
I am tempted to try and plate some pieces that are already installed, is this sheer folly?
Mainly brass rivet caps, any thoughts?
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Hey Mac, maybe I'm a bit late in the process here, but I'd love to know how you did the temporary assembly of the fingers. I'm facing that issue right now, and I am a bit stumped.
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
It's pretty exciting to be within sight of the end.Tom B. wrote:Mac,
It is great to see the final assembly progressing.
Massimo has never looked so grand, I am sure he will be sad to see the armour go.
It's probably possible with virtuosic torch manipulation or with a big honkin' soldering iron, but I would not want to attempt it.Tom B. wrote:Your last few pages have brought up a couple of questions about one of my own pieces.
I have accidentally knocked off one of my soldered on brass rivet caps.
Do you think it is possible to replace this in situ or would it just be best to remove the rivet and replace it?
It may be to the point to put it back on with cyanoacrylate. That will buy you some time to make a replacement.
If you can keep the solution from getting onto something you would rather not plate, and you have a way of washing off the residue when you are done, it should work OK. For the first, you might be able to get away with painter's tape. If that doesn't work, nail polish might be convenient. Washing off the residue would ideally involve a stream of fresh water, but a few passes with damp cloths will do the trick. Don't be tempted to dampen your sleeve with saliva and use that.... of if you do, don't lick the same place twiceTom B. wrote:The second question is about plating.
I am tempted to try and plate some pieces that are already installed, is this sheer folly?
Mainly brass rivet caps, any thoughts?
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
It's pretty straightforward, really. I just riveted them with rather minimal head, and used a Dremel cut off wheel and a punch to get them apart later. The tricky parts are not cutting your good surface with the wheel, and not deforming anything when you punch out the rivets. Truth to tell, I sometimes use my leg to back up parts that I am knocking temporary rivets out of. If the rivet was set too tightly, it will leave a bruise as punishment.Tableau wrote:Hey Mac, maybe I'm a bit late in the process here, but I'd love to know how you did the temporary assembly of the fingers. I'm facing that issue right now, and I am a bit stumped.
Does that address your problem, or have I missed the point?
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
I thought I'd do a bit more detail on the finger assembly procedure here.
In order to not have too many pieces on the bench at once, I worked my way across the hands, starting with the fourth fingers. The temporary leathers were removed from the knuckle strip, and all the "cannons" placed in the proper order. I traced around the plates with a pen to get an idea of how much sewing margin there was and how much more would be needed.

The shortfall was added to a tracing of the leather, and I spent some time fussing over whether the lines were right. The sides of the finger leathers should be pretty straight, and the whole thing should taper. The tip should be graceful and symmetrical.

I cut out the new template, and spent a bit more time fussing over whether the lines were right. Then I traced out a pair of them on the leather and cut them out with scissors. I left the pen lines on the waste.

Using the temporary leather and a scribe, I transferred the hole locations. These will be just "suggestions" and the true locations will be determined directly from the plates.

I set each plate in turn on its leather and marked the holes with a ball point pen.

The holes were punched with a small tube punch and carpet tacks installed. The tacks were mostly cut off rather short, so as to leave just enough for a flush head in the countersunk hole. The finger tip rivet was treated a bit differently, though. It will be exposed, and needs to end up with a smooth head that will not catch on a cleaning rag. They are cut a bit longer and finished up with a concave punch.

In spite of my best efforts, the sewing margin was a bit uneven and excessive. I took this opportunity to trim it a bit.

Meanwhile, the knuckles have been waiting in ziplock bags since the rest of the armor went off to be blackened. All the parts are punched with identifying marks, but I labeled the bags as well. They will be gold plated off camera.

Before the knuckles go on, the exposed ends of the rivets/carpet tacks need to be blackened with a dab of Oxpho blue. Since I am dipping right out of the bottle, I use a fresh Q-tip for each set of fingers. I don't want to contaminate the stock by double dipping.

The hole locations for the knuckles are marked with a pen, and the rivets are peened up like the ones on the finger tips. They will be left "white", though.

That process was repeated for each pair of fingers, and the resulting assemblies were riveted onto the knuckle strips.

This is a temporary assembly/reality check. I want to make sure everything is working correctly before going further.

The next step will be to sew the fingers to the gloves. Depending on how my right elbow feels in the morning, I may defer that task for a couple of days and work on cleaning up enough of those brass caps that Rene K sent me to finish up the helmet.
Mac
In order to not have too many pieces on the bench at once, I worked my way across the hands, starting with the fourth fingers. The temporary leathers were removed from the knuckle strip, and all the "cannons" placed in the proper order. I traced around the plates with a pen to get an idea of how much sewing margin there was and how much more would be needed.
The shortfall was added to a tracing of the leather, and I spent some time fussing over whether the lines were right. The sides of the finger leathers should be pretty straight, and the whole thing should taper. The tip should be graceful and symmetrical.
I cut out the new template, and spent a bit more time fussing over whether the lines were right. Then I traced out a pair of them on the leather and cut them out with scissors. I left the pen lines on the waste.
Using the temporary leather and a scribe, I transferred the hole locations. These will be just "suggestions" and the true locations will be determined directly from the plates.
I set each plate in turn on its leather and marked the holes with a ball point pen.
The holes were punched with a small tube punch and carpet tacks installed. The tacks were mostly cut off rather short, so as to leave just enough for a flush head in the countersunk hole. The finger tip rivet was treated a bit differently, though. It will be exposed, and needs to end up with a smooth head that will not catch on a cleaning rag. They are cut a bit longer and finished up with a concave punch.
In spite of my best efforts, the sewing margin was a bit uneven and excessive. I took this opportunity to trim it a bit.
Meanwhile, the knuckles have been waiting in ziplock bags since the rest of the armor went off to be blackened. All the parts are punched with identifying marks, but I labeled the bags as well. They will be gold plated off camera.
Before the knuckles go on, the exposed ends of the rivets/carpet tacks need to be blackened with a dab of Oxpho blue. Since I am dipping right out of the bottle, I use a fresh Q-tip for each set of fingers. I don't want to contaminate the stock by double dipping.
The hole locations for the knuckles are marked with a pen, and the rivets are peened up like the ones on the finger tips. They will be left "white", though.
That process was repeated for each pair of fingers, and the resulting assemblies were riveted onto the knuckle strips.
This is a temporary assembly/reality check. I want to make sure everything is working correctly before going further.
The next step will be to sew the fingers to the gloves. Depending on how my right elbow feels in the morning, I may defer that task for a couple of days and work on cleaning up enough of those brass caps that Rene K sent me to finish up the helmet.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
-
James Arlen Gillaspie
- Archive Member
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Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Tom B. said;I have accidentally knocked off one of my soldered on brass rivet caps.
Tom, I would go to a welding supply and get some 'Heat Fence' or the equivalent. Put masking tape on the surfaces adjacent to the rivet, and then glop on the 'Heat Fence' around the rivet, covering what you do not want to heat. Heat fence is refractory mud, so the tape is to protect the piece from it, as it is a bit gritty. A tight tipped flame should do it, if your planets align properly.
Do you think it is possible to replace this in situ or would it just be best to remove the rivet and replace it?
Tom, I would go to a welding supply and get some 'Heat Fence' or the equivalent. Put masking tape on the surfaces adjacent to the rivet, and then glop on the 'Heat Fence' around the rivet, covering what you do not want to heat. Heat fence is refractory mud, so the tape is to protect the piece from it, as it is a bit gritty. A tight tipped flame should do it, if your planets align properly.
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
I started in sewing the fingers to the gloves, but only got to the third finger before stabbing myself with a glover's needle.
I've come in to waste time while the bleeding stops.
Mac
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Nope, that covers it. I'll be in the shop today putting that into practice.Mac wrote: Does that address your problem, or have I missed the point?
Mac
Working on some finger's myself really helps me appreciate how tuned your process is. You make it look easy. my work bench is a chaos of what I hope will sort themselves into fingers.
While I'm here, where do you get your carpet tacks? I haven't looked for them very hard, but I've mentioned it to some hardware store employees who just looked confused. Right now I use drywall nails which isn't 100% optimal.
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
I got one hand's worth of fingers sewn to the glove today. I'll do the other one tomorrow.
A lot of the day was spent cleaning up the twisty brass rivet caps, and getting them soldered onto roofing nails. I annealed them (outside) and ground the heads to hexagons so that they would sit well down in the caps.

The other day, I made a holder thingy for the caps.

I'll polish these up tomorrow.

Mac
A lot of the day was spent cleaning up the twisty brass rivet caps, and getting them soldered onto roofing nails. I annealed them (outside) and ground the heads to hexagons so that they would sit well down in the caps.
The other day, I made a holder thingy for the caps.
I'll polish these up tomorrow.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
That's a good question. It used to be that any hardware store has a selection or sizes. I tried to get some at the Home Despot yesterday, and all they had were too big. I was able to make do with what I had already. Some of them were purchased decades ago.Tableau wrote:
While I'm here, where do you get your carpet tacks? I haven't looked for them very hard, but I've mentioned it to some hardware store employees who just looked confused.
There are places online that offer them. I tried to buy a bunch a few years ago, but got all confused by the crappy website and ended up with about 1000 #1s, which are too small to do anything with. I suppose I will try ordering some more useful size and see what I end up with.
One problem with carpet tacks is that the size numbers seem to be more a "trend" than a specification. They vary wildly from manufacturer to manufacturer, and even ones in the same package differ significantly.
Oh... and when you go to order them, look for "blued" rather than "black". The black ones just look more modern than they need to.
Last edited by Mac on Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
I got the right hand fingers sewn to their glove this morning. You might not thing it would take that long to make 170 stitches, but there ya' go. A significant amount of that time was spent resharpening the point on the glover's needle. Any time I accidentally struck the inside of the armor with the point, I would look to see if there was a shiny spot on the point. If there was, I took it to a fine sharpening stone. Every dozen or so trips to the fine stone would start with some reshaping on a medium stone. It makes a tremendous difference in how easily the needle will pierce the leather.

I'll work on the helmet a bit this afternoon, and return to the gauntlets later. I need to spread out the sewing sessions.
Mac
I'll work on the helmet a bit this afternoon, and return to the gauntlets later. I need to spread out the sewing sessions.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Did you have any problems keeping the fingers of the gloves open as you sew? Or bending the excess fingers out of the way while you work on the current one? That kind of manipulation is one of the things which makes me slow at manual work.
Badly designed online stores are a bane, aren't they! You would think that they would make it possible to search by some kind of meaningful statistic ... but some just dump hundreds of products into a giant list. When I made my list of suppliers, I prioritized dealers with good online stores and search tools, and giving a quick summary of what they carried and where they were based for shipping purposes.
Badly designed online stores are a bane, aren't they! You would think that they would make it possible to search by some kind of meaningful statistic ... but some just dump hundreds of products into a giant list. When I made my list of suppliers, I prioritized dealers with good online stores and search tools, and giving a quick summary of what they carried and where they were based for shipping purposes.
DIS MANIBUS GUILLELMI GENTIS MCLEANUM FAMILIARITER GALLERON DICTI
VIR OMNIBUS ARTIBUS PERITUS
VIR OMNIBUS ARTIBUS PERITUS
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Definitely. It would have gone much faster if the fingers were not attached to the knuckle strip. In fact, now that you have gotten me thinking, it would have been much faster to have knocked out those rivets and replaced them.Sean M wrote:Did you have any problems keeping the fingers of the gloves open as you sew? Or bending the excess fingers out of the way while you work on the current one?
It's funny that I missed that idea about the assembly. I have deferred riveting the thumbs on for just that reason. I suppose it's about how I have made a lot more mitten gauntlets than finger gauntlets. I usually leave the mitten assembly separate from the metacarpal until I sew in the finger tips, and I guess I was just doing the analogous thing here without having thought it through. Perhaps I'll remember that next time.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Is there a reason you didn't dye the various semi-exposed leathers on the hands a) black or b) all the same shade of leather-color?
Fighting Belegarth, Amtgard, Dagorhir, and SCA Heavy
-
Olivier L-Beaulieu
- Archive Member
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:23 pm
- Location: Québec, Canada
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
I am on the Archive since 2003 or so. This thread and "The making of a suit of armour in pictures" from Patrick Thaden in 2005 are the most useful for me. Thanks for the time you are spending to inform us, Mac!
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Thank you, Olivier!
Mac
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
This is a very interesting question, and I have let it sit for a bit while I gathered my thoughts.Arrakis wrote:Is there a reason you didn't dye the various semi-exposed leathers on the hands a) black or b) all the same shade of leather-color?
I have chosen the leather for the lining strips and finger leathers for its qualities, primarily. It is also a common authentic color for leather in that application.
I have chosen the gloves with several things in mind...
--Suitability of the leather. These are a medium weight of dear skin. I would have gone with a lighter weight if it were available. Goatskin would have been nice, but the company that makes these does not offer it. Likewise for chamois.
--Cut and workmanship. These gloves are pretty well put together and comfortable. I had the company that makes them do up a short run with these cuffs. I also had them make the seam at the wrist be flat and unobtrusive for use in gauntlets. If I could have gotten something with a more authentic cut of the fingers and thumb I would have liked that. Sadly, no one makes them like that any more.
--Color. These gloves were available in a rather small choice of colors. I had them made in the color that would be most like an authentic glove color. An off white or buff color would have been nice, but those were not on the menu.
I suppose that in an ideal situation, the lining leathers and the glove leathers would be more similar in color. If I had, or knew where to get, leather in a color that matched the gloves I would have used that.... provided it was in all other ways just as suitable.
The idea of dying the lining strips never entered my head. I have a sort of thing against dying leather. It looks good when the tannery does it, but almost always looks bad when done with a bottle and a swab. Perhaps I remember too well the occasion on which I lent a new gauntlet to a guy for an advertising picture.... The photographer did not like the look of the white goatskin, and took the liberty of dying it shitty-brown. He kindly included the left over bottle of dye when he returned the gauntlet, so I could similarly color its mate. I still feel a bit violated about that whole thing, and it may color my feelings about dyes.
In some sense it comes down to the idea that the lining strips are not a fashion statement, but practical necessity. So long as they are one of the colors that one sees on real armor, I feel as though I can ignore them like the way we ignore the guys in black who change the scenery in Japanese theater.
Mac
ps. I may not be done thinking about this, and may come back to the idea in a bit if I have more thoughts.
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Dusting off the cobwebs
Mac, I am glad that my dumb questions are leading you in a helpful direction.
The first week that an apprentice armourer spent sitting in the window with two or three other apprentices and journeymen to furnish three dozen pairs of gauntlets with leather, he must have learned a lot about how to work efficiently, even if he could not describe it.
An armourer in Canada also pointed out that gloves wear out every few years of use, so unless you can make the replacements yourself, or are sure that you will continue to live next to someone who can make them, its wise not to kill yourself looking for a less inauthentic solution.
Sources on 14th century gloves, let alone gloves for furnishing gloves of plate, seem very limited last time I talked to leather people. If someone wants to start a thread, I have a few things I could throw in.
The first week that an apprentice armourer spent sitting in the window with two or three other apprentices and journeymen to furnish three dozen pairs of gauntlets with leather, he must have learned a lot about how to work efficiently, even if he could not describe it.
An armourer in Canada also pointed out that gloves wear out every few years of use, so unless you can make the replacements yourself, or are sure that you will continue to live next to someone who can make them, its wise not to kill yourself looking for a less inauthentic solution.
Sources on 14th century gloves, let alone gloves for furnishing gloves of plate, seem very limited last time I talked to leather people. If someone wants to start a thread, I have a few things I could throw in.
DIS MANIBUS GUILLELMI GENTIS MCLEANUM FAMILIARITER GALLERON DICTI
VIR OMNIBUS ARTIBUS PERITUS
VIR OMNIBUS ARTIBUS PERITUS
