A few quick questions on COP construction.

[Urban]

I'm in the process of finishing up a low budget 14th century kit, but want to start working on a more polished kit. I plan on doing a COP, which I've built before, but I want this one to look nice, and the one I made previously was pretty rough.

I'm afraid I can't remember the name of the gentleman who build this fine kit, but I'm sure you guys will recognize it. This is basically what I'm shooting for. I see a lot of COP's in a very heavy leather, but I like the drape of his, which seems closer to a garment weight leather. So I'd like to construct my COP out of the following materials: Lighter-weight leather, lightweight plates (probably stainless, but aside from the cost factor would spring steel or titanium work for this purpose?) brass rivets, brass hardware.

So as I'm researching proper weights/gauges of materials to use, any suggestions on these materials?

Leather material/weight?

Brass rivet diameter?

Plate material/gauge?

Thanks all.

[Harry Marinakis]

Is this kit for fighting or show? Makes a big difference on what materials to use.

For fighting, remember that thinner leather means that it won't last as long. My CoP is 5-6 oz oil-tanned leather, and it's standing up pretty well to a lot of abuse, but I don't think it will last forever. I would hesitate to go any thinner for fighting.

The leather in the photos above seems thinner than 5-6 oz, based on all the folds in the leather that I see. My 5-6 oz. leather would never do that. Maybe it's 3-4 oz?

[Urban]

This will be for SCA heavy combat.

[Harry Marinakis]

For fighting, you can use 5-6 oz oil-tanned leather - should stand up to the elements better than veg tan. But your colors are limited. I searched for a long time to try to find red oil-tanned leather in 5-6 oz without success, finally settled on black. Photo of my CoP below, before I added shoulders. You see, 5-6 oz leather doesn't wrinkle like the CoP shown in your photo. You can go lighter than 5-6 oz but it's not going to last very long.

I used aluminum plates without overlap, the protection is superb. For rivets, I used copper roofing nails.

[Aelric]

My ACL coat of plates is made from the CoP kit sold by Polar Bear Forge in 301 Spring Stainless and light leather. It works great.

Aelric

[losthelm]

I use Crome tanned upholstery leather for wisby gorgets, pouches and such.
It's around 3-4oz and does well, a COP may tug and distort the leather but a layer of canvas and the use of washers or larger headed rivets should compensate.

[Konstantin the Red]

As Lostie points out -- two layers to the shell. If not three. Smooths your torso armor right out and multiplies its service life.

Canvas for its backbone and a leather public layer outside is a good recipe.

[RandallMoffett]

I'm with Kon if you want to go fabric. You can do several layers of canvas and velvet if you like a really nice face but something to know is that over time leather or fabric will get scuffs and some day maybe need replacement. That said I did rebated and used the same canvas pair of plates for years so depends.

RPM

[losthelm]

Not really a big fan of velvet, at some point someone applies duck tape and its nearly impossible to fet out.

[Urban]

So if I were going to layer canvas on the inside, I assume this would be between the plates and the leather?

[Hrolfr]

Looks like a helm by WMA.

Perhaps a member of his household?

MJ any help????

[Keegan Ingrassia]

As an aside on that image, I love that little loop of cord he has under his aventail that is being used to hang his face-plate. Practical details like that make me so very happy.

[Urban]

Found him! Mirko Hirschfield, from Germany

https://www.facebook.com/mirko.hirschfeld?fref=nf

[Harry Marinakis]

Love his kit, but I couldn't tolerate wearing all that mail

[Urban]

Someday I'll have that much mail, probably Ti though. When my wife wins the lottery.

[RandallMoffett]

Losthelm,

Maybe if you are in the SCA but I was under the impression from what I have done even there you largely put them on the helmet. There are ways to get it out of velvet as well...

RPM

[white mountain armoury]

I wear that much mail, even with deteriorated disks in my back.
My kits pretty much the same but my COP is all fabric.

[aetheric991]

I wear at least that much mail as well. I blame my inability to fight as well as I want more on the lazy sack of fat inside my armour, rather than the armour itself. A least I look good while losing.

[Harry Marinakis]

I wear that much mail...

You guys are gnarly.

[Payn]

I have had good luck with split suede. Lasts well, but the drape isn't a fluid as the above before it breaks in.

[Konstantin the Red]

So if I were going to layer canvas on the inside, I assume this would be between the plates and the leather?

Exactly, and that's what I meant by backbone. It's the main hold-it-together structure.

[Urban]

Groovy, will do.

Concerning the drape of Mirko's COP, it's not so much that I'm trying to replicate the exact look, but his has a very fitted feel to it, while a lot of COP's I see have a "I'm wearing a barrel wrapped in leather" appearance, and indeed the COP I built many moons ago was just such a piece, no shape, just an ill-fitting tube. Wish I could find a picture of it.

[aetheric991]

There are a few pics on Mirko's facebook page that show more details of his CoP. The actual shape of most of the plates is pretty "barrel" like. What really sets this one apart from most Cops that you see is the attention to detail. It looks like everything under it is fitted to him, thus allowing his CoP to be nice and snug. I love the strap ends on it! I also admire the fact that his spaulders are hinged onto a plate like the pair from Wisby, rather than laced onto the CoP like mine are. This is something that I need to upgrade now. Maybe I'll sew on an edging like his as well...

[Harry Marinakis]

If you want a more fitted look, then make the CoP in two pieces - front and back. You can sew or rivet front and back together so that the CoP shoulders follow the natural slope of your shoulders. See the pic in my first post above.

[Tom B.]

Groovy, will do.

Concerning the drape of Mirko's COP, it's not so much that I'm trying to replicate the exact look, but his has a very fitted feel to it, while a lot of COP's I see have a "I'm wearing a barrel wrapped in leather" appearance, and indeed the COP I built many moons ago was just such a piece, no shape, just an ill-fitting tube. Wish I could find a picture of it.

You always can send him a message on Facebook and ask him.
Several months ago when I first found his photos on Facebook I sent him a message.
He responded quickly and was overjoyed that someone liked his kit enough to ask questions.
He had some specific iconography that he used as a source for most of his gear.

I am sure he would share any tip for getting the fit you want.
His English very good.

[AKAWilliamUlfer]

I used Double layer sail cloth with leather washers under the rivets to keep them from cutting into the fabric. The upside to the sail cloth is it comes in a variety of colors and is pretty much water proof and durable. Down side is that it doesn't breath, but neither does leather. I still have my first coat of plates from circa 1990 and was fought in untill 2006 and it's still in good shape. Though I have replaced the leather and rivets over the years. If you have a heavy duty machine you should be able sew it with out much trouble. www.sailrite.com