Zweihammer armoury gauntlets from PBForge

[luapmandragon]

Hey everyone I've been tinkering with a 1050 gauntlet kit from PBForge for the past couple weeks and I could use a little help.

I've been using this tutorial during the assembly: http://www.scribd.com/doc/20786196/Gaun ... er-Armoury

For the most part everything has been very straight forward until I get to the 8th Lame or step 26 on the tutorial. I'm having trouble doming/folding over the bottom part of the lame to prevent gapping. I'd like my gauntlet to have the straighter crease like the darker gauntlet at the bottom of the tutorial. However, every time I try to dome or crease it straightens out the gentle curve of the lame. And, when I try to put the gentle curve in the lame it straightens out the crease or creates bulges.

Now I do have an idea that may help. Now if the gauntlet was formed into a vertical fist, the top and bottom of the gauntlet is flatter in the tutorial than mine are. They seem to have a defined crease where it passes the last knuckle then rolls/folds over the top/bottom of the vertical fist. I'm wondering if this is my issue. My lames have a curve all the way throughout. Whereas their lames have a very slight curve then a fold at the ends. I'm thinking that if I do a more pronounced fold at the end then this may solve the problem of the curve/fold fighting each other. I'm going to give it a try later today but just wanted to see if anybody on here could possibly shine some light.

Below are some quick pics of my gauntlets that I've been working on. I'm not sure how helpful they'll be. In one picture my hand is holding a lame in place that kind of shows the ripples I'm getting and where the gap is at for the lames I'm working on. Thanks in advance.


**** Space Saved for when my phone emails the pics and I post them***

[Gaston de Clermont]

Steel resists bending in two directions at once. In going back and forth on this you may have work hardened the steel, so it will resist your efforts more. A couple options:
1. Make a better shaping tool for the lame. A bowl that has the gentle curve and the crease will work. You could make it out of wood, and I'd use a steel hammer against it if you can.
2. Heat! If you can get the steel bright red hot, it will submit to your bidding. Really, it will do the filthiest and unnatural of acts if you get it hot.

[luapmandragon]

More Pics


Look at the right side of this picture, it really lets you get a good look at the gap where the lame needs to be bent downwards. These images are starting to looking really bad after I resize them for what the archive can handle =(.




This picture shows me holding the next lame where it would be lowered in place and riveted. BTW I'm using aluminum braizer rivets to hold in place and test articulation since they are fairly easy to remove and are cheap.



Here is a side view of the right gauntlet. Look towards the upper left lame and you can see where the large gap is at.

[luapmandragon]

Steel resists bending in two directions at once. In going back and forth on this you may have work hardened the steel, so it will resist your efforts more. A couple options:
1. Make a better shaping tool for the lame. A bowl that has the gentle curve and the crease will work. You could make it out of wood, and I'd use a steel hammer against it if you can.
2. Heat! If you can get the steel bright red hot, it will submit to your bidding. Really, it will do the filthiest and unnatural of acts if you get it hot.

The first would be ideal but I just don't have anything to make a form out of. I do have a hand held propane torch that I could heat up the metal with. I haven't hot worked metal before except for annealing brass rivets and a few attachments for a motorcycle trailer. So I'm slightly apprehensive about ruining the piece. If I do spot heat the pieces should I just let it air cool then after I get the shape I want? This is 1050 steel if that makes a difference. I don't have a forge/kiln yet so I'll have to either wait for heat treating or find somebody local that could help out on that end.

[Halberds]

Did you massage it over your new big radius stake?

I would second the heat to help your metal submit to your will.

Hal

[luapmandragon]

Did you massage it over your new big radius stake?

I would second the heat to help your metal submit to your will.

Hal

I have been trying and can get it close before I start getting wrinkles. The main problem is I do most of my work in a spare bedroom since I don't have a garage. I really need to build a work bench that I can use outside then I'll get better leverage and can use heat. I took the radius stake outside with my propane torch and wasn't having the greatest of luck with it. I'm just not sure if I can get it hot enough to make much of a difference. I'll mess around with it when I get more time. Should I try a MAPP gas torch or do I need something more heavy duty? I'd eventually like to have my own small propane forge but the main thing is I just don't have any where to put it since I don't want to keep it inside the house.

[Myron]

I just made one of these out of 18 mild. To get the domed shape at the wrist facing edge of lame 8, I used a trailer ball hitch stake and raised the shape where your knuckles go once the lame was bent to fit over the previous. You can see in the directions how much more that shape is bumped out than yours. The other long side of the lame is curved down to fit under the next dome on lame 9, and repeat for the rest of the lames. I riveted each lame together as I finished shaping the dome, and then cleaned up the gap by placing the gauntlet over the stake with it in it's closed position and hammering.

Hope that helps

[Halberds]

To help get the wrinkles out, turn it upside down on your bouge plate and hammer with the oval raising hammer.
I also like hammering both pieces together over the stake, imagine if they were hot.

My first sabaton was assembled with screws and hammered together over a stake red hot.
That made everything fit quite close.
I flexed it and hammered at the same time.

Humm... I still have it and my first greave.
I think it would make a cool lamp. No?

[luapmandragon]

I worked on it for a few minutes a day or two ago and saw some progress. I'm slowly coaxing it over the large radius stake. As it flattens out I pull the left and right sides over the stake and this helps keep the gentle curve and seems to help out with the wrinkling. It's slow going but it seems to be working. Honestly, my description probably doesn't help so I'll put some pics up in the next few days when I get some spare time.

@Myron- If I can't get the shape I want I may give that a try. I also believe I read somebody used a ball pien hammer in a vise to get the dome shape they wanted.

[Sevastian]

I just used my 16oz ball pien hammer and a super small depression in my birch stump for the 18 gauge stainless versions I made. My second one turned out better naturally. Perhaps starting the dishing or raising deeper into the lame if that makes sense?

[luapmandragon]

Perhaps starting the dishing or raising deeper into the lame if that makes sense?

It does but I'd still like to make mine have the more angled look as opposed to the domed look. Worst comes to worst I'll dome it if I have to. I'll probably have an update on this project on Sunday/Monday.

[Halberds]

Oh... I thought you were doming and curving.

For an angled look you might need a piece of steel shaped like the angle you want.
Perhaps a curved ground chisel sticking up in the vice.

Yes pics... or it did not happen.

[luapmandragon]

Oh... I thought you were doming and curving.

For an angled look you might need a piece of steel shaped like the angle you want.
Perhaps a curved ground chisel sticking up in the vice.

Yes pics... or it did not happen.

I was thinking about picking up a jack hammer bit and rounding the edge. I'll see what I can get done tomorrow.

[Galileo]

Go to a rental place and see if they have one they're gonna scrap. You might get it for a song.

[luapmandragon]

Well none of the tool stores in town carry them in stock but you can order them online and get free shipping to the store. I also checked with their rental departments and they either don't or aren't allowed to sell the old tools. I'll check around and see if there are just straight tool rental places that won't be so dismissive over the phone unlike Lowes/HF/Northern/HomeDepot. Otherwise I'm thinking I'll buy http://www.homedepot.com/p/Vulcan-Break ... /202579120 . It seems to be the widest of any bits I can find. So unless somebody can suggest a better size/bit this is probably what I'll order unless I can find one used.

[Myron]

What about a wide mason's chisel? It would probably be cheaper than the jackhammer bit, and you can grind it to shape. Lowes or Home Depo carries ones about 2-3" wide for around $10

[Galileo]

Depending on the size of this thing - http://www.harborfreight.com/1-piece-sd ... 60414.html -- the shape might be more useful.

[Tascius]

Use a dumb bell or barbell plate in a clamp. Choose one that is already rounded and the diameter curve you want.

[luapmandragon]

Use a dumb bell or barbell plate in a clamp. Choose one that is already rounded and the diameter curve you want.

Good idea but I've already got a curved radius stake. Was looking for something with a little more of a point for a more creased look. That being said I'll probably use my radius stake here in a little bit since it has been working for me. I'm thinking worst comes to worst this set of gaunts won't have the super sharp crease and I'll just make another set in the future. I've got a buddy that will probably want me to help him with a set.

[luapmandragon]

A few junky update photos. I messed around for about an hour and half today. My dad dropped off a ton of my tools this weekend so I'm trying to setup my work space. I've been slowly rolling the edge over the large radius stake and that seems to do a pretty decent job but takes forever. I just got my grandpa's old vise that has a small anvil horn on it. I used that on the last lame and that was much faster and created a crisp bend that stops the gaps. However, it kind of made a sloppy curve for the part that covers the rest of the hand. So I then worked that over the large radius stake and that combo seemed to work fairly well in a quick period of time. So now I think have the basic process down so I just need to fine tune the look and articulation.


photobucket isn't cooperating so I will see if I can get them hosted and posted later.

[xwingace]

I just received the 1050 steel kit for these, so I am watching this thread with great interest! I'm still a bit green at this though, so I am going to make some clamshells from a pattern first before I go after these.

[luapmandragon]

Still having trouble with the pictures but I think I kind of have this finger lame articulation thing figured out. I bought a 4x4 over the weekend and had it cut into 2 foot long pieces. I'm using these for dishing stumps.

So what I've been doing to get the shape is:
1. Use dishing donut hammer on the lame on the flat part of a 4x4.
2. Continue dishing by angling the lame above the 4x4 to continue deepening the dish.
3. Drilled a shallow hole in a 4x4. Then lightly drill around hole to make a small dish shape. Hit this a few times with a ball peen and donut hammer to smooth it out.
4. Use the new dish and the donut hammer on the lower 1/3 to 1/2 of the lame to curl the lower edge downward to prevent gapping.
5. Worst come to worst use the ball peen hammer to fine tune any gaps and really curl the bottom of the lame. This creates marks in the metal so I try to abstain from this.
6. Finally I use the raising penis on my swiss army multi-armouring tool to line up the lames in any low or high spots that don't match up.

I put knuckles into the first lame I used the drilled hole/dish on. This worked well for this lame and If I did a consistent job and cleaned it up I bet it would look nice. However, I'm not sure if I have the skill/patience to mess with this concept on my first go around. This lame ended up not wanting to match up with the lame after it and had tons of gaps. I flattened the knuckles out and just put a general dish into this lame. For my skill level this looks much much much....much better and should be faster. After I get all these lames shaped and assembled I'm probably going to have to spend quite a bit of time planishing and buffing the lames for the top half of the hand. I've really worked the daylights out of these finger lames over the past few weeks trying to figure this out. I'm planning on buying/making another set and I'm sure it will go much smoother. I'm having a blast now since I'm actually making meaningful progress. I'll try to figure out this picture thing over the weekend.

[luapmandragon]

Alright lets see if I can get some update pics on here.

pic of left hand

[luapmandragon]

fully extended view of the top:

[luapmandragon]

inside of the articulation (may be distorted):

[luapmandragon]

fist:

[luapmandragon]

I've pretty much got the right hand done. I just need to finish the lower thumb piece then articulate it and the tip together then attach to rest of the gauntlet. Obviously I still need to planish but I'd say I'm past the rough shaping phase. The pic of the left hand is all that is done with it. I'll try and take some in progress pics of the left hand so other noobs can get some ideas of how to from the finger lames, which where the hardest part for me.

[Halberds]

Thanks for the progress pics, they seem to be coming right along now.

[luapmandragon]

Well I was cleaning up the house a bit today. Got termite inspection coming this week and my dad dropped off a bunch of stuff a few weeks ago when he visited. Anyways, I've been missing a bunch of armour projects and tools that I had started/used almost two years before I moved.

Behold:


Found all of this stuff in a box with packaging peanuts. I thought it was beer making stuff for all these months but when I pulled it down I knew it was way too heavy to be beer. The top of the box said Tools and I just about cried. Inside I found my dishing donut, planishing stake, dishing hammer, dishing mini-sledge, 1/2 of my 301 PBForge COP kit, and a bunch of pieces of japanese armour I had been working on. I was so careful packaging this stuff that I lost it for about 18 months.

Below will be a couple more pics of the gaunts and/or my work station.

[luapmandragon]

Work station:

[luapmandragon]

My 4x4 dishing divet. I used the largest drill bit I had to make a shallow hole. I then made even shallower holes around the center hole. This basically chewed up and splintered the wood around the original hole. I then smacked it a few times with a ball peen hammer and the dishing donut hammer. It's been working fairly well for the gauntlet project.

Divet:

[Halberds]

Thanks for the update.

Your wood dishing divot reminds me of my tin/lead alloy rivet anvil or the bottom of my tin/lead dishing form.
The soft tool was a blessing to form my special needs.
I used small ball peen hammers and chisels to shape details.
Too bad the price of the tin/lead alloy has gone thru the roof.

Tip #7:
Cut 6" long your 2 by 4 wood and clamp in the vice with the end grain up.
This can be shaped for a variety of temporary uses.
Use wood rasps or grinders to form your desired results.
Internal shapes will require half round wood gouges, chisels or a big ass Dremel.
If the area needed is larger that a 2 by 4... add more wood.

Hal

[Ckanite]

I more than agree with Hal! My first stake was an oak 2x2 and I'm still using the thing almost 10 years later!