Early 14th C English Man-At-Arms SCA legal

[HugoSteinhardt]

So I know my SCA Character. Born in Bristol closse to 1290, reaches maturity around the end of the first Decade of the 14th Century and Is in service of the local Lord. Now the modification to fit RP wise with my local group of Vikings, He falls in battle barely recovers after being plucked by a group of Vikings from the battlefield. Essentially Making me Atholstan(sp?) from Histoy Channel's "Vikings".

now the only "I Want to be" thread that relates to my time period is IWTB an English man-at-arms in Edward I's service(1272-1307). Now there should only be Mild changes to my Kit but i would be wearing essentially the same thing. Since my Rig is for SCA I not only will hide Armor but also make a couple modification to allow for comfort/weight shed. I plan to make as much as possible, For instance the Aketon/Gambeson I will probably use an old blanket for. I have been reading up on Maile, its been some time since i messed with Mail but i still remember how to do Euro 4 in 1. I know Rivetted Mail was used and the guy in the thread was looking at alternating Mail, I am probably just going to make a Hauberk completely from Rivetted Mail.

Question on the Helm, Would a Bascinet with Aventail be Viable yet or should i go with a Kettle Helm? the Character's Target area of service is 1310-1315, thats the "present". I have also seen in the Research Section where Knee and Elbow Cops wear worn, and i think they were Rondel Cops, they had little round plates on the outside. Later if my SCA status rises then I plan to add some touches like those to the kit. for now a simple ArmCannon made from a Cop and Leather Vambrace will suffice(hidden). my Hidden Cest will be a simple leather Kidney belt with a couple leather plates for chest protection and "shoulder cops" all connected to make it easy to put on. put on belt flip the "suspenders over my head(plates attached to this) and buckle it it to the belt.

Now it's been pointed out in the above thread that Hose was the Pants in use. Now personally tight fitting pants are uncomfortable to me. I am a bigger guy. now a Loose Fit "hose" would be fine i think. I also have some House shoes made from Leather and lined with wool or cotton(i think it fake anyways) these are not the typical obviously modern house shoes. they are more mocasin style and very loose on my foot. I would like to find a good representation of the footwear of the time so i could modify these house shoes to match, I will add a modern sole to help with traction on the field. I'll probably get a couple pics of the shoes up tomorrow.

I plan to get my Combat Kit assembled before i even think about Garb and Event Clothes. Now, I am a Newbie returning to SCA so I have the jist of things but lack the essentials. I lost my old gear back 5-6 years ago when my Storage got broke into and emptied. I'm quite broke and Jobless so my initial Setup will be on the cheap side like i stated about my Aketon/Gambeson. this also means that pics of my kit may take a couple months. Especially the Hauberk since that will take me a bit of work to complete. first i need to aquire/assemble the tools for making the rings/rivets(I'll be doing Wedge Rivets) and then i'll need to make the rings and start weaving.

[Tibbie Croser]

M'lord, don't be afraid of hosen. For the early 14th century, you'd be wearing chausses over braies. Chausses are thigh-high leggings that tie to the waist cord of your braies, and braies are like linen undershorts. Chausses (and hosen) do need to be snug, but they're stretchy, so they feel like long underwear, not like tight jeans.

For something that will look OK from a distance under a knee-length tunic (while you're slowly improving your garb), you can modify sweatpants to look like hose/leggings. This works best if they're something like a heathered gray color.

Your main problem will be that as an early-14th-century English man-at-arms, you're a couple of centuries past the Viking period. By the early 1300s, the Norse had long since converted to Christianity. So, either stay with your preferred 14th century kit and accept that you won't fit in the same era as your friends or change to a Viking kit to match them. Changing your kit doesn't mean you have to change your name or persona; quite a lot of SCA members wear kits that don't match their official SCA names or personas.

[Gaston de Clermont]

Bascinets with aventails are depicted in this era. Great helms seem to be more common still. Here's a great resource to dig through for ideas:
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/search/?y ... &genders=M

Folks were wearing turn shoes in this time period, which can work just fine for SCA combat. Many people do prefer to have arch support and modern traction.

[MJBlazek]

Here you go man, this may allow you to have some of your story still fit. Just drop it back a couple of hundred years
"....By 1012, the Vikings were in service in England as Thingmen, a personal bodyguard to the King of England. They were offered payment, the Danegeld, which lasted from 1012 to 1066 and stopped Viking raids for almost twenty years. The Viking presence dwindled until 1066, when the invading Norsemen lost their final battle with the English at Stamford Bridge. Nineteen days later the Normans, themselves descended from Norsemen, invaded England and defeated the weakened English army at the Battle of Hastings."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_inv ... nd#England

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/ ... anuscript=

[HugoSteinhardt]

M'lord, don't be afraid of hosen. For the early 14th century, you'd be wearing chausses over braies. Chausses are thigh-high leggings that tie to the waist cord of your braies, and braies are like linen undershorts. Chausses (and hosen) do need to be snug, but they're stretchy, so they feel like long underwear, not like tight jeans.

For something that will look OK from a distance under a knee-length tunic (while you're slowly improving your garb), you can modify sweatpants to look like hose/leggings. This works best if they're something like a heathered gray color.

Your main problem will be that as an early-14th-century English man-at-arms, you're a couple of centuries past the Viking period. By the early 1300s, the Norse had long since converted to Christianity. So, either stay with your preferred 14th century kit and accept that you won't fit in the same era as your friends or change to a Viking kit to match them. Changing your kit doesn't mean you have to change your name or persona; quite a lot of SCA members wear kits that don't match their official SCA names or personas.

so from what I understand, My Brais are essentially my Boxer shorts and Chausses are what i put on for combat, and i would wear Hosen for my Feast Garb? What is the Differences between a Gambeson and an Aketon?

I'll just write out the Modification to fit in with my Group. I'll stick with my original and be an English man-at-arms from Bristol in 1310-1315. was it 1315ish when England invaded France with several thousand men and won against the French's tens of thousands?

What time frame in the early 14c did they start wearing Cops over their Mail?

Since Bascinets are Viable then i will be wearing one of those with a grill and Aventail. My vision is already bad without my glasses so trying to see through slits would make it quite rough for me to fight effectively. So i will make an Aventail of riveted Mail and attach it to a Bascinet. Does anyone have Bascinet Kits for sale?

[wcallen]

Searching effigies and brasses takes time. Looking at my little book, I have knee cops in 1277. Plently early. I don't have many brasses in the book, so the 1323 brass of Sir Wm. Fitzralph is an early-ish one that shows schynbalds, knee cops, elbow cops, and splint plate protection for the rest of the arms (splint being plates covering the outside of the arm but not the inside, not "splinted". There are rondels at the elbow and shoulder. He even has sabatons that cover the top of the feet. I am sure we could move that back enough years to work for you. You just need to keep the relatively long surcoat.

Bascinet kits - rough from the hammer - Cet here on the archive.

As I remember he does cops for the knees and elbows too, so that and some pretty simple plates over the arn and some rondels on the elbow and maybe shoulder (not the knees) and you would actually have armour that looks like armour.

Wade

[Konstantin the Red]

Welcome and well come to Design & Construction, Hugo. I see you just joined and have been machinegunning out the posts. You've come to the right spot for organizing your harness, though without half a dozen people all dedicated to building you harness to play in, the process will not be at all instant. But even one or two Barony buddies can be an enormous help.

No matter what you do, mail is going to be slow -- crummy butted mail will mean about eighty to one hundred man hours in the weaving for a haburgeon, but the era you are interested in would be more hauberk and chausses, which is like to double that time. In riveted mail, halve the overall weight -- and multiply the work-up time by four. There are more steps per link.

You know, there is no Society prohibition against uncoupling fighting harness from persona and era. You are looking so far at delinking your persona period around 1315 to a harness about 40 years ahead of that. Persona-fied armor is all very well and a nice achievement -- but you should do your fighting in what makes you comfortable out there, keeps fingers from getting smashed, and doesn't imperil any part of your structure that's unusually delicate, like that knight over in Atenvelt who fights in a great-bascinet for stern medical considerations regarding his risk of getting turned into a paraplegic. (Great-bascs are pretty much unparalleled for cervical spine protection.)

Braies are about as long as boxer shorts but fit pretty close around the middle thigh, at their bottom end -- like boxer-briefs but not built as stretchy, and looser across your butt for leg freedom. This taper-down keeps them in place and doesn't let them drift up out of the hosen and give you diaper-butt. They are already a trifle diaperish as it is.

One can fight nearsighted hand to hand, though I hate it and insist on athletic glasses. Soft contacts work superbly too. A grill bascinet generally accommodates athletic glasses well, as the type often has (though not always!) enough room forward. A movable grill usually does.

Below the helmet, almost 100% of the stuff can be built by you. The biggest exception would be mitten gauntlets; gaunts are fiddly to get really right and most folks would rather spend the money for at least one pair -- whatever they may determine, and boy do they have to be determined, to do next. Demigauntlets used with baskethilt swords are an exception to this, as the cuff and the metacarpal plate are the two easiest parts of a steel or boiled leather gaunt to get perfect. The digits are where things get tricky.

A lesser exception are the two elbow cops and the two knee cops. If you are willing to learn "soft hammer/hard anvil" or "hammer on air" -- you will do both techniques at once -- you can work up your own cops from sheet metal by this quasi-raising method. For a first try I recommend using 16ga mild steel for both of these. You might try 18ga later. 14ga is too heavy here. You want weight control on your limb armor.

Everything else in metal is comparatively easy to pound out.

Under a comprehensive metal hauberk, much can be done in concealed armor cut from pickle-barrel plastic for things like kidney plates -- the blue barrel stuff. Similar things from 100-mil bucket plastic are almost as good, and 100-mil (0.100") pieces can be doubled up and riveted together to become quite as effective. Which one you use, well, that's a question of which can you get cheaper, like salvaging paint and drywall-mud buckets out of a construction site. Cleaning these out is a messy wet job; dress accordingly. Don't take a bucket anyone's mixed mortar or cement in; too much work and they don't clean up. But house paint and drywall-compound buckets clean out with water and scrubbing. Blue barrel, you probably needn't clean out.

There is an excellent and fully, unimpeachably period legharness for use under hauberks -- and/or not under hauberks. It is the gamboised cuisse, which can be quilted up completely from fabric or have reinforcing splints slipped into its innards for a little something extra. They should rise high enough on the outside to completely cover the area of the great trochanter of your thighbone, and then they may as well continue all the way to your belt. I always recommend a dedicated belt for your gamboised thighs, with the cuisses thonged to it for adjustability back and forth until they are perfectly set. From the bottoms of the cuisses, hard knee cops are thonged, buckling behind the knee. The whole assembly goes on like putting on a pair of shorts: convenient, highly effective, inexpensive, and low profile. Lots of pictures and threads on them onsite.

You've noticed pro-built bascinets start pretty affordably priced in many places, often cheaper than the same makers' kettlehats. The bascinet with a camail attached to it by vervelles and strap is more a creature of the last third of the fourteenth century, when it totally took over. In your part of the century there was a lot more experimentation going on with it, and pictorial evidence tends to be puzzling: it may mostly be bascinet-upon-mail coif. Rather heavier. Mounted men's armor got pretty heavy in the generations between 1310-1350, and about then they wised up and began trusting plate better than they had. So the layered look faded out, and harness evolved to almost complete harness of plate by c.1390AD. Further platiness awaited the next century.

Fabric parts: linen (100% linen only) is coolest and good and strong; cotton is second best since it really holds any water it's soaked up, which linen doesn't. Wool is surprisingly comfortable also, in lighter weights, and has an excellent springiness to it to absorb impacts, and it wicks sweat off. It's underrated. At worst, think about using it in the cooler seasons. Linen lining and woolen outers is a good combo.

Rondels can always combine with fanless hard cops, particularly the elbow and shoulder areas. Rondels of your time would be smaller than the later, plate-associated besagews, which did about the same job.

Don't delay garb for warharness -- you'll spend more time in the garb, honestly. And it's a lot easier to launder. Your time is the beginning of the cotehardie era, but a gosh-wow coathardie -- worth it! -- is probably for Twelfth Night, 'kay? Knee-length tunics in the manner of the latter 1200s will do for a lot, especially for a man-at-arms of humble station. You'll still want about three changes of tunic anyway for cleanliness, plus your accessories like belt, purse, eating-knife. Have a hood; you can roll it into a chaperon for more clement weather. Most SCAdians neglect headgear, which their exemplars did not in those ancient times of the Little Ice Age when for Europe you really needed to dress warm and you did. (Even now, by American standards Europe does not get enough sun.) You needn't carry a sword about with you, and they didn't in that time anyway. Swords-of-war were just that.

Okay, this wall-of-general-info should be enough for one day.

[HugoSteinhardt]

Konstantin, I appreciate the info, however like i stated this is not my First Rodeo with SCA. I was fighting 7 years ago, it was brief since not long later life hit followed by a Pregnant Fiance, then a break up. I have fought in a Kidney belt harness already. If you didn't understand I apologize, the Kidney Belt harness I am talking about with plates is my Hidden Armor under the mail. Arm Cannons as well as Gorget will be hidden. Your information on the Gamboise Cuisse that was very helpful. it tells me that i could have my Knee Cops Visible.

On a side note, i did research prior to posting, I have lurked AA for years on and off. mainly the patterns.

Now i planned on atleast 2 surcoats, but i'm up in airs about what i should put on them. now with some research i know that Bristol became its own county in the middle of the 14th century, until then it was apart of Gloucestershire, which has a Coat of Arms. now I don't know if i should use Gloucestershire's CoA or Edward III CoA. when i become a Knight in SCA i'll make new Surcoats with my own CoA on it. Which will be my actual Family Crest. I come from a Scottish Stephens Branch. the CoA is viable for SCA, Obviously Surname is Stephens xD I was Actually going to use Hugo Steinhardt but its a Germanic Name even though its viable in the 14th C I'm going back to my English Name. still working on a first name.

When I become an SCA Knight which is my Main "social" goal for SCA Its when i Plan on adding the Rondels and exterior Elbow Cops with rondels. Its essentially when i move the characters Timeline ahead by 10-20 years when those started becoming more popular.

on the Riveted mail Hauberk, I have read through multiple guides for how to make the Riveted Links. I already know how to weave Mail, i was weaving it before i joined SCA 7 years ago. the one thing out of period will be now Mail Mittens, I'm going to stop it at the wrist and wear Clamshells. I also want to have a non-basket hilt sword. They are nice but i am more comfortable with no basket hilt and a clamshell.

well thats it for my Ramblings. I need to research and thinking about getting a couple signs to start my Starter Armor with.

[Konstantin the Red]

I have fought in a Kidney belt harness already. If you didn't understand I apologize, the Kidney Belt harness I am talking about with plates is my Hidden Armor under the mail.

I sorta figured that, though I didn't say anything. One thing we always have to ask about is what tools you've got, and what tools you can get access to if you want. Some guys get too fixed on go-it-alone and forget there's a Shire or a Barony surrounding them, with DIY'ers well represented. We get simply every level of experience in here, all the way down to starry-eyed gamers. Had some (obnoxious) kid in here wanting to hand construct a first-installment Assassin's Creed gamer armour. Never built a piece of armor in his life, and he wants to build a breastplate, tassets, and an Assassin's helmet and visor as his first project. Thought it was the neatest thing since sliced bacon. I'm afraid we were unanimously at him. It was terrible.

There is a heckuva lot here about hidden armor for your Re-starter Armour. Sign aluminum will be nice and compact, lots thinner than barrel plastic, though it won't much like compound curvatures -- it'll tolerate gentle ones.

In re coats of arms: Let's get what I call the consulting-heralds' Monty Python questions out of the way. Already we know what would be thy Quest: to devise at least a Device that would pass Laurel, so let's stipulate that one; the other two are What is thy persona name? -- and What are thy Favourite Colours? You know you're likely to score an AoA before you get girded with a Knight's white belt. There are a metric half ton of CoH people around here and to a man we love to consult. Devices almost invariably have considerable input from other people, and people in the registration chain. That's a piece of what they are there for, after all.

It's not, however, considered remotely honorable to appropriate Arms undifferenced, even for solely intra-Society use. Put in one something of your own, okay? Different tincture somewhere, add a chief -- there are a lot of things you can do to stay on the side of right. They also recommend some difference between your mundane name and your Society one, to help you be in your medieval mindset for your different identity there.

Looking at the kind of thing pulled up from those helpful sites that will sell you a piece of parchment of no legal standing whatsoever but which does say that someone with a surname like yours has or had arms somewhere in the UK, I see about four assorted coats attributed to Stephen or Stephens, whether or not they be Scottish, and they carelessly call it a "family crest" to boot, owing to less than informed usage in the nineteenth century. Students of heraldry roll their eyes at such, and it's a red flag. The Crest is one portion of the entire Arms, and not the most important part either. Being an essentially vertical portion of the whole, it was very popular among the armigerous of sufficient means to engrave the crest on the handles of their table silver, where generally the whole Arms would not have fit to nice effect -- though plates and tureens would have made a different story. This widespread use led to the misapplication of the term Crest to the entire Arms, which is incorrect. Even in England and Scotland it's not unheard of for precisely similar Crests to be on different families' Arms.

The old way, and the way for us SCAdians, is the use of a Badge, which Laurel also registers whenever you'd like. Badges often enough show up on one's banner -- arms at the hoist and any and all badges out at the fly.

[HugoSteinhardt]

I have fought in a Kidney belt harness already. If you didn't understand I apologize, the Kidney Belt harness I am talking about with plates is my Hidden Armor under the mail.

I sorta figured that, though I didn't say anything. One thing we always have to ask about is what tools you've got, and what tools you can get access to if you want. Some guys get too fixed on go-it-alone and forget there's a Shire or a Barony surrounding them, with DIY'ers well represented. We get simply every level of experience in here, all the way down to starry-eyed gamers. Had some (obnoxious) kid in here wanting to hand construct a first-installment Assassin's Creed gamer armour. Never built a piece of armor in his life, and he wants to build a breastplate, tassets, and an Assassin's helmet and visor as his first project. Thought it was the neatest thing since sliced bacon. I'm afraid we were unanimously at him. It was terrible.

There is a heckuva lot here about hidden armor for your Re-starter Armour. Sign aluminum will be nice and compact, lots thinner than barrel plastic, though it won't much like compound curvatures -- it'll tolerate gentle ones.

In re coats of arms: Let's get what I call the consulting-heralds' Monty Python questions out of the way. Already we know what would be thy Quest: to devise at least a Device that would pass Laurel, so let's stipulate that one; the other two are What is thy persona name? -- and What are thy Favourite Colours? You know you're likely to score an AoA before you get girded with a Knight's white belt. There are a metric half ton of CoH people around here and to a man we love to consult. Devices almost invariably have considerable input from other people, and people in the registration chain. That's a piece of what they are there for, after all.

It's not, however, considered remotely honorable to appropriate Arms undifferenced, even for solely intra-Society use. Put in one something of your own, okay? Different tincture somewhere, add a chief -- there are a lot of things you can do to stay on the side of right. They also recommend some difference between your mundane name and your Society one, to help you be in your medieval mindset for your different identity there.

Looking at the kind of thing pulled up from those helpful sites that will sell you a piece of parchment of no legal standing whatsoever but which does say that someone with a surname like yours has or had arms somewhere in the UK, I see about four assorted coats attributed to Stephen or Stephens, whether or not they be Scottish, and they carelessly call it a "family crest" to boot, owing to less than informed usage in the nineteenth century. Students of heraldry roll their eyes at such, and it's a red flag. The Crest is one portion of the entire Arms, and not the most important part either. Being an essentially vertical portion of the whole, it was very popular among the armigerous of sufficient means to engrave the crest on the handles of their table silver, where generally the whole Arms would not have fit to nice effect -- though plates and tureens would have made a different story. This widespread use led to the misapplication of the term Crest to the entire Arms, which is incorrect. Even in England and Scotland it's not unheard of for precisely similar Crests to be on different families' Arms.

The old way, and the way for us SCAdians, is the use of a Badge, which Laurel also registers whenever you'd like. Badges often enough show up on one's banner -- arms at the hoist and any and all badges out at the fly.

About the Stephens Crest, I have in my possession a family history done by one of the Stephens family. Its got documented sources and its also where a print of the Family Coat of Arms is. I am not a Stephens myself, they are related but my Branch married into another family.

[Konstantin the Red]

And good for the Stephenses. Honestly maybe not so good for you, for reasons of property rights protection -- of them. Throw me a blazon, please? Lots of really very nice things can be done once we have a notion of which of the several arms we're looking at... done to your taste in these things, no less.

And I'd insist: Arms, not Crest, please. As a onetime herald myself, I do have a bit of knowledge of this. The SCA doesn't even use crests, nor supporters either. Not officially, not even for dukes -- as the UK would.

[HugoSteinhardt]

Sorry, been absent, One of my other past times is gaming and i got caught up in one. I been looking for the Stephens Book. its somewhere in the boxes of stuff from Grandma. she passed away a couple months ago. she got it from her sister. I did a History paper on it back in junior high. this book particularly covers when the first Stephens landed in America in the mid 1800s. their children fought in the Civil War, that was the topic of our History assignment so i was using my family for the project. I honestly don't know how far back the Coat goes though, that's why i figured it was safe to use. I'll look for it tomorrow and get it scanned and uploaded. its black and white so i can choose what colors i wish for it. I do know it was a "shield" with the symbols, animals on the sides and i think a Helm atop it but its been a while since i seen it.

[MJBlazek]

You can use whatever arms you like. It's the "registering" them with the College of Heralds that gets tricky

[Konstantin the Red]

But that's where Consulting Heralds come in. Native guides.

[MJBlazek]

Crest Shirpas

[HugoSteinhardt]

On a side note I remember seeing something about converting moder leather purses into satchels. Anyone heard of this or know of a guide? Mom has a couple leather purses I wouldn't mind grabbing. They are not covered in fake gems or "pretties" so conversion should be easy.

[HugoSteinhardt]

Be prepared for posts. I will be posting 2 posts since the Cote of Arms is on my PC and the Leather house shoes are on my Galaxy Note 2. I am actually looking through the Burke's Peerage to find the documentation. anyways, here it is in all its black and white glory. Due to the multiple figures on the Coat I may just pick on from this Coat itself for my Coat. I don't know what Creature the 3 heads are from though, maybe Pig. the three heads are most likely what i will use on my Coat so long as its not in use. Color question, Orange is a viable color for 1310 correct? Obviously not neon Orange, but maybe a Hazard Oran would be viable?



EDIT: Added Screencap of Burke's Peerage showing 2 Stephens. the Top Stephens is relation to me, the Saying and the crest are represented on the above Coat of Arms. however the Character i was depicting i was orignally going to be from Bristol, which until 1340s was part of Gloucester Co. I don't know what all the short hand means so if anyone can elaborate that would be awesome.

[Konstantin the Red]

Excellent; the blazon was more helpful than the pic... those weren't very piggy boars' heads, were they -- no tushes (!) -- they look like the heads of sheep. Or maybe horses. Or oreodonts. Which are out of period.

Boars' heads could be a really good motif, if you like such critters. You can draw them really fierce looking, and Europeans had a better idea of what a wild boar looks like than they did of lions.

Lion rampant, looking back over his shoulder ("regaurdant/regardant") -- lions, often rampant, are extremely frequent in mundane-world heraldry and underrepresented in SCA heraldry, so here is another excellent possibility.

You know the SCA doesn't do quartered coats of arms officially. Not a bad way to recover your straying kidlet at a very large event, though, if the little one disappears wearing your arms and your lady's, quartered or impaled together. Little trick to think about.

BUT -- there's nothing against SCA arms being quarterly, so long as there is something to tie the whole thing together: a charge overall on top of the field as it were such as a cross, or a Chief ditto, or the differing tincture and metal of the quarterly field zippered together with a fancier line of flection. Quartering two noble coats together is always done with plain straight lines; fancying the line up by making it embattled, raguly, wavy, all sorts of things, this is accepted as uniting the quarters into something singular and not dual. Clear so far?

The medievals loooooved their symmetry in symbolic art of heraldry's kind. A device that is at least more or less symmetrical of composition (around the vertical axis) has an easier time making it up the chain to Laurel King of Arms than a strongly asymmetrical design -- which occasionally might appear in Central Europe; western Europe and the British Isles, not so much. Calls for documentation of this kind of thing, and consideration of whether your persona hails from central Europe or not.

Anyway, there's lots of handsome designs that could be come up with, suiting your early-fourteenth man-at-arms. A good way to noodle is to doodle; a motif centering around boars in various poses might be the very thing. Lions capering about -- only reason why not would be the bother of drawing a lion, or cutting out a leonine stencil for your shields. And that is not a very big bother at all. With some effort, both lions and boars (or their heads) might be crammed into a single design that doesn't look quartered or impaled together.

[HugoSteinhardt]

thinking of going Lion over the hashed background, or the Three Boars Head over a solid background. Representing before the marriage issue that resulted in the Quarterly Coat. I know the Quarterly Coat is the results of 2 families of equal standings coming together and the resulting Coat is of this design or something similar. Heavily leaning on the Lion over the hashed background. I know Orange is one of the colors for the thatch. Not sure on the other color. I know i like the hashed Look xD crap on stencils i will most likely hand draw the Lion. and i would probably have some patches made or just sew on a "patch".I could go without the lion all together and just do Orange + [insert color] hashed.

[Konstantin the Red]

Oh, yeah, the orange: not in the SCA; it's accounted not a Tincture, but a taint. Kinda arbitrary. Similarly not using brown, unless it's a bear, a tree trunk or a potato or something else that is usually a brown thing -- its Proper color, you see. Too easy in a momentary glimpse for it to register as black, instead of the brown it really would be. But just using black would be fine.

You wouldn't believe what heraldry did with the Panther... muddled natural-history descriptions of this cat-beast led to heralds painting a panther in polka dots like the wrapper off a loaf of Wonder Bread. Oh, yeah, and shooting smoke from his ears. (Long story.) God alone knows what they would have made of the zebra.

Heraldry's crayon box is in the main pretty dang basic -- like the little box of Crayolas first-graders use. I was always kind of jealous of the huge crayon boxes some kids brought to school with all those tints including flesh-color and the built-in sharpener in the back... Decoded from heraldese (most of that is corrupt French with a liberal salting of elderly English alternative words too) you've got

• Black and White
  Red
  Yellow
  Green
  Blue
  Purple
  

-- and nary a decorator color in the lot, barring a couple of taints, orange and a mulberry sort of color, which have not to my understanding ever been used on anyone. And the SCA isn't about to try.

The hatching behind the lion isn't a figure on the field; it's a more or less standard engraving shorthand for the field being black. Burke's abbrev's it Sa. for "sable." (Despite the name, it's not counted as an heraldic fur, not in English heraldry anyway, nor Scottish-style.) Though one or another fur might be worth thinking about, behind that lion. Or more than one lion, there's always that possible option as you seek to avoid heraldic conflict with somebody else in the Society, which is another piece of the consulting herald's job, to make sure nobody else got it registered first. Since the SCA's Ordinary & Armorial are now online, this preliminary check has gotten a whole lot easier. To eliminate a conflict within the Society, you might care to keep a boar's head or two up your sleeve... just in case.

If you'd like to decorate a field up all two-tone, see "diapering." The term goes back to a very old meaning of the word that has to do with making cloth look like damask. This is ignored by blazonry, and the user is wholly free to decorate the field and any Ordinaries (broad stripes going various ways in several places, mostly) in florals and such if he's doing up a shield that's too pretty to hit. I've never bothered, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't. In diapering, decorator tints do come in, so you can see it.

There is a hatched-like sort of heraldic field: putting a fretwork on it, even specifying the nail color if you'd like, though I am not sure this detail is period to heraldry's practices of how arms were designed before 1485 and the last battlefield use of heraldry in its martial application, at the Battle of Bosworth Field. After Bosworth, the "Heroic Science" retreated to non-martial uses and began growing things like crests, multiple crests, supporters, and small but significant charges sufficient to difference coats of arms, but not big enough to really spot on the battlefield -- like the mostly quite small marks of cadency, first son, second, and so on unto the ninth (Heraldry gives it up after the ninth son, perhaps from sheer awe at all that fertility. Does milord do anything else?). Anyway, the fretwork would follow the heraldic Rule of Tincture, and would be blazoned some tincture/metal fretty some other tincture/metal, one each of metal and tincture. With or without nails in it.

That Rule of Tincture: think of any color combination you've ever seen on a highway sign. They follow this rule too, for highway signs have the same job as coat-armour: to convey, unambiguously and in an instant's glimpse, information. It works with the quirks of how the human perception processes color... we're really good at seeing lemons in a lemon tree (for a perfect example of rule of tincture). Rule of Tincture avoids a perceptual problem we humans have: per the Rule, never join blue directly with green. You could glimpse a shield with the top half blue and the bottom half green for half a second through a helmet's sights -- and be horribly hard pressed to figure out whether it was green on top and blue below or the other way round. Damnedest thing. Somebody who wants both blue and green also wants to put something between them -- white, ermine, or yellow, say.

Re a Motto: any damn warcry or inspirational phrase you want, preferably as brief as you can get. Otherwise you've not got a Motto, but a Mission Statement, which would hardly be period! Laurel King of Arms will not be concerned with it, so have all the fun and mottoes you'd care to.

[HugoSteinhardt]

FYI, I found this loverly gem.

The Medieval Tailor's Assistant

Its given me A LOT of information for my Garb, this is packed full of patterns with rough time periods. It has Sewing techniques and tells you which to use on certain garments. this PDF is amazing, I am going to see if its in the newb or archive and see about a link.

[Ernst]

Looking at my little book, I have knee cops in 1277.

As a point of information, they can be reliably dated to 1225, when they are shown on the shrine of St. Maurice of Abbot Nantelm.
http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/ch00104a03a.jpg

[HugoSteinhardt]

Bannockburn 1314

According to this, a Man-At-Arms equipment is half that of a Knight. a Knight's pay was 20lbs(don't know the key stroke for the English Pound). Now to give an idea of my Kit, page 23 has a picture of Sir William Fitzralph's Monumental Brass. using this I will essentially remove the Plate armor. I'll put a Aventail on my Bascinet. Mail Hauberk and I am going to go with a Padded Cuissess instead of Maille Cuissess. Hidden Plates will cover my SCA Mins and different spots i want "padding". Thanks to the Tailor's Assistant i posted above I know how i will make my Shirt/Smock, long Brais, separated Hosen, and the Sleeveless Surcoat. for combat i would take the Surcoat off, put on my Hidden Plate rig and the Padded Cuissess then the Mail Hauberk will go on followed by the Surcoat again.

Now i been doing some reading, looking into 14th C feudalism and military. I have a good Idea of what i Should have for garb and armor. As well Weapons, Man-At-Arms were pseudo Knights. in early middle ages they were the same but slowly Nobles made Knights Socially different.

On a note, I am going to buy straightened, shaved Ratan for my SCA sword. I am wanting to make a sword that would look like an Arming Sword so no Basket Hilt. Where can i find some good Crossguards and Pommels. And i'm not talking a couple rings of Tube welded to some metal bars and then polished. they are ugly IMO. I plan to get a rubber tip as well.

On a Heraldry Note, I think i decided on my Cote of Arms. Boars heads in the top corners of the "shield" with a a larger Lion in its center, and the "field" i will do vertical Stripes. 9 stripes, 4 of 1 color and 5 of another. Colors are TBD, since Orange is out of the running i am having trouble deciding... My Debate is possibly using the 2 colors that makes Orange, Yellow and Red.

EDIT: I thought i read that you can now view Cotes registered with SCA online? Obviously it may be restricted but still I think it was.

[Konstantin the Red]

You can read all about it in the SCA OandA (for Ordinary and Armorial) if you know the heraldese, which boils a visual design down to a concise -- if, shall we say, limited-resolution-but-close-enough -- few words. If you're not up for learning the heraldese, you get your local Herald Pursuivant to translate for you and draw pictures, which pictures he will know how to do.

Doodling is very handy for devising your Device. I think you're working up a handsome design. Might like to think about the coloring of the boars' heads, since they will surely overlap upon both the red and the yellow. To see what they are, you'd want them some color other than red or yellow, so they don't partly disappear into a stripe. Maybe the color your lion is.

[Konstantin the Red]

Don't forget that if you have a bench vise, a plane, and/or a Surform(tm) rasp (the little curved kind works best on rattan, whose rind is stubborn) and a carpenters' rasp, you can do the rattan shaping for yourself by hand. Sanding discs on a drill work too if you don't mind all the dust.

Straightening rattan takes about nothing in equipment also: two drum-like discs sawn from 3/4" plywood (4 pieces, stacked like short stacks of pancakes) and stoutly nailed down about two inches apart. Put your wiggly rattan into the gap and lever the rattan good and hard, counter to the curvature you are trying to remove. It will spring back some, but your straightness will improve, so keep at it, up and down the length of the rattan, until you've got it tamed. Chimp simple. Note that you don't need to steam it or wet it.

[HugoSteinhardt]

With my Cote i was just going to have the Boar's Heads be White maybe black borders to allow for details easier. same with the Lion.

Straightening and shaving Ratan, yeah i have none of that >.> I am broke, jobless and hoping i can even get enough Loaner materials to make my starting Gear. I have gotten some small items. I might have found some Blue Plastic Barrels to make my Hidden Plates with.

I think as well i am moving away from Stephens and going with Hugo Steinhardt. I should be able to squeeze it in. Hugo is seen in England it has Germanic ties, and Steinhardt is a German name. its an off shoot of Steinhaus. there are also Stainhardt documented back to 12th century. Since Bristol is a Port town, I figured i could get away with a German name. English born but with German heritage. Although its not my Orignal basis of the Steinhardt Name, they are a Prominent family in my Fantasy world i use in DnD, Wealthy Merchant family. Which a Wealthy MErchant family is where i can have a Basis for being as well equiped as he is.

[Konstantin the Red]

Sounds a plan, all right. Good luck with the job search!

Probably the very first tool you should have for rattan swordly things is a carpenters' rasp or access to one, to shape your grip how you like it. It's the tool that sees the greatest immediate use in fitting a stave for a sword.