Pointers for making a better authentic liner?

[MJBlazek]

So I have a padded liner. That is nice, but I learned something this weekend.
When it gets wet, it compresses a lot!
From my sweat I think I lost a good half inch to compression, which made it fairly loose at the top of my head.

Anybody know of a way to combat this? Other than taking it out, cutting it down to a collar, sewing the collar to the edge of the helmet and then padding with modern materials around the top?

[Steve S.]

I have noticed that over time my helmet liner has also lost some of its original thickness.

I have wondered if applying modern materials to the inside of the helm, between the liner and the steel, would not be a prudent idea. At least perhaps in a "star" pattern emanating from the apex of the helm and down the sides.

Steve

[Henrik Granlid]

Whatvis it stuffed with?
Is it suspension or not?

[Gaston de Clermont]

I've stuffed my liners with flax fibers with decent results. Flax can bind up some when it gets wet, it's usually spun in to fiber with a little moisture, but I roll tow into little balls and it doesn't seem to stiffen much. I imagine wool maintains its springiness a little better. I have some horse hair I'm thinking of trying next.

[Woodsende]

I have made period liners with various materials.

Horsehair: Compresses some over time, but not to the extent you were talking about. It regains it's original size/spring after washing I hand wash the liner a couple of times a year).
Flax Tow: Seemed about the same as horsehair, but when washed, the tow became little balls hard as rocks.
Hemp rope fibers: Basically the same as tow.
Linen scraps: Did this for a friend, seemed very similar to horsehair. Long term I don't know since he doesn't play anymore.

For me horsehair seems to be the best solution for long-term use. With a couple of washings a year, I have not had to add any extra padding. The compression when wet could also be a function of how tight the stuffing of liner was to start with. If it was fairly loose, the stuffing material could compress.

Robert of Woodsende
West Kingdom

[Steve S.]

I used cotton batting in a suspension liner.

Steve

[aetheric991]

I used several layers of wool scraps, hand quilted between two layers of wool.It seems to be holding up pretty well, but I don't get to fight as much as I'd like...

[Baron Conal]

anyone try this?



http://www.fairfieldworld.com/product/73

[MJBlazek]

I may go the "easy" cheater route and cut the top of the liner off, and use modern padding from the brow line up.

I have a different helmet that has the full liner sewn into it. But its a much shallower helmet, less space to fill.

[Amanda M]

My last helm was modern padding velcroed in to the helm and then a quilted liner on top because Atenveldt did not allow for a historical liner at all. I was pretty happy with the results.

[MJBlazek]

I have to admit,
This is the padding I have had the best results with. I have just never been able to get anything else to feel comfortable/secure on my head.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCA-Helmet-P ... 0653401945

[leekellerking]

I have a Known World Treasures linen liner in my bascinet and while I didn't notice it compressing, it did expand when I washed it.

Just in case, I have a layer of 3 or 6 mm (can't remember which) closed cell foam on the sides, under the linen. And I wear a padded cotton coif. The top is suspended, btw.

[aetheric991]

The solution a friend of mine uses a layer of closed cell foam inside the his bascinet, covered by a quilted suspension liner made of two layers of linen sandwiching a 3/4" layer of open cell foam. The linen and foam went thru the sewing machine with no problem. I think he hand washes it.

[Tom B.]

I have a quilted linen liner then a 1/4" band of sorbothane around the brow and 1/8" across the rest of the helmet skull.

[Tom B.]

I also want to point out that really you don't want a "authentic liner"
Every extant liner I have seen or seen photos of was very very thin.
Even allowing for compression over the years they are crazy thin.

[MJBlazek]

Good point

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

IMG_4743.crp.JPG (94.19 KiB) Viewed 232 times

I have to say I'm not buying the whole 'thin helmet liner' notion. There has been no scientific examination of them that would provide data on how thick they were four hundred years ago or more. The last liner I had in a helmet I worked on was 17th c., and a bit ragged in places, but still reasonably thick, and almost usable. It compressed down only a little thinner than the Known World liners. The shell would have needed mending in the front and around the sides and then needed to be reattached around the leather lining band so it stood off the head again (airspace at the top). I think the average size of helm(ets) and their intended purposes, compared to the average head size, tells a lot about how padded out they originally were. Sallets, in particular, are very roomy. 8 1/2 inches in skull width is pretty typical. A good deal of artwork shows additional headgear worn in conjunction with them. 'Maximilian' style close helms are even roomier at the sides, but sometime in the 17th century there is a shift, and close helms get a lot closer, with some exceptions (I have worked on some pretty roomy Brunswick stuff, but they seem to hang onto older ways of doing things). Analyzing this change from an ergonomic standpoint is something I would very much like to do.

[Edward MacTavish]

I use bamboo fiber padding in my helms and am very happy with it. No smell, cool, and wicks well.
I have never had to wash it and there is not mold or any funk.

[Luca Sogliano]

Mine is 100% wool batting, in a linen shell. It is cooler than cotton, cooler than bamboo, and just as cool as linen. Unlike linen, it doesn't get hard over time, and the leftover lanolin oil in it has a mild antibacterial effect that prevents stank. It also holds up in the wash, as the batting was pre-washed. I'm rather partial to it.

[Baron Conal]

I use bamboo fiber padding in my helms and am very happy with it. No smell, cool, and wicks well.
I have never had to wash it and there is not mold or any funk.

Have you noticed it compacting more or less than any other types of padding you have used
over time?

[Tom B.]

Mine is 100% wool batting, in a linen shell. It is cooler than cotton, cooler than bamboo, and just as cool as linen. Unlike linen, it doesn't get hard over time, and the leftover lanolin oil in it has a mild antibacterial effect that prevents stank. It also holds up in the wash, as the batting was pre-washed. I'm rather partial to it.

Did you use some of the commercially available quilt batting?
Something like this:
Nature's Comfort Wool batting is 100% natural wool with no resins or glues
This one doesn't have the glues and chemicals that some quilt batting has.
Not sure about the flame retardants.

[Luca Sogliano]

I don't know if that's the brand, but that's the stuff.