Early articulated butt defenses

[Mac]

On another thread, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=177067 we had gotten a bit sidetracked by the question of "gussets of plate" to defend the buttocks.

There's this one for sure....





... and maybe this one.



Now we have another. Bob Charrette showed me this the other day. He thinks he snapped the pic at the Cleavland Museum of Art, but he's having trouble finding his notes. I would guess it to be from about 1400-1410.



Mac

[Konstantin the Red]

Pistoia Silver Altarpiece too. So a start date in the 1370's?

[Keegan Ingrassia]

With a start date that early on gusseted glutes, it would then make sense for the front of the cuisse to have similar extensions up under the faulds...would it not?

[Mac]

With a start date that early on gusseted glutes, it would then make sense for the front of the cuisse to have similar extensions up under the faulds...would it not?

It looks like we are seeing some sort of extension of the cuisse front in the St. George alter (El Puig), but it's impossible to know what form it takes.

The cuisses in Paris have an extension plate in front. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/294845106830407531/
and so do the Chalcis cuisses in the Met. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/294845106830660792/ I would have to read again the entry on the Dean catalog to know whether either of those plates are original.

My impression is that in this age of short faulds short cuisses, there was a certain amount of experimentation to try to invent plate gussets to supplement or replace the mail. I suspect that none of the solutions were entirely satisfactory, and that the problem ended its self when they started making the faulds longer in the 1420s.

Mac

[Mac]

Pistoia Silver Altarpiece too. So a start date in the 1370's?

K,

I am having trouble finding any examples of armored butts in Pistoia. What am I missing?

Mac

[Tom B.]

Now we have another. Bob Charrette showed me this the other day. He thinks he snapped the pic at the Cleavland Museum of Art, but he's having trouble finding his notes. I would guess it to be from about 1400-1410.



Mac

This one has eluded me so far.
None of my usual search methods have paid off.

I am guessing that this is a painting of the arrest of Christ or some other part of a passion series.
Any other ideas?
Your dating matches my guess as well.
Also I would guess it is Italian.

Any other thoughts or ideas that might help narrow it down?

I think I will post it to Facebook and see if any of my contacts there can help.

[Mac]

Tom,

I found it on their web site, but they don't have a dense image. I guess I should have linked to it anyway. It's a panel or perhaps a diptych with four scenes from the Passion.

edit.... OK I found it again http://www.clevelandart.org/art/1945.11 ... earch_form

Mac

ps. I'd really like to see a nice image of the Flagellation. My recollection of having seen this painting some years (20?) ago, is that the guy in the red and white parti color jupon has a green and white codpiece. If my memory serves me, this would be a very early example of that sort of thing.

[Tom B.]