Stone Carving. Knight on Horse. Transitional 14th.

[HRE1350]

So every now and again this pic pops up of a knight on horse with sword drawn. He is wearing a long surcoat, a visored great helm, greaves, and has three escutcheons on his shield. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Amanda M]

Yeah. It's a rare depiction of a visored sugarloaf. I'll try and find it. So far only seeing the crappy reproduction pieces.

[Amanda M]

http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=23857

[Ernst]

The Bargello knight?
http://cs622328.vk.me/v622328586/354f4/W2_aRbEQGUE.jpg

I've always been more interested in the scale gauntlets. I don't think images of visored sugarloafs are really that rare, though.

[HRE1350]

That's the one. Is it in fact in Italy? Visored sugarloafs aren't rare depending on how you define them. This particular construction is rare however unless you consider it a great bascinet. I've seen this one, some drawings of figures in England, and I think one was found in the holy land. When I say that, I'm referring to the mid 14th. Then in the late 14th it starts appearing in Germany. I'd just like to see some more depictions of it in the mid 14th. I could say I bought it from an Italian vendor but the super duper folks seem to think you have to copy from a single effigy. Anyways when is the Bargello knight dated 1340-1350?

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/3256/2687/

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/3260/2691/

[Ernst]

The Bargello is in Florence, and I think the rebuilding after a fire dates the frieze to 1323.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

I would safely say that the rest of his harness dates it to the 1320s or so, as well. Early-transitional stuff all around, with motifs reminiscent of 13th century depictions - like the large spaulders with the hanging lames, though I personally doubt anything like that was ever really worn by a western knight. They strike me as a bit of the oriental flare excited in art after the Fourth Crusade.

-Gerhard

[HRE1350]

Yeah I used to say 1320's-30's based solely on his long surcoat. But peeps would be tripping about how heavily armoured he is, even though there are depictions of hinged cased greaves as early as 1310 England. However, its true you can see a long surcoat pop up in later periods here and there so I don't know. Yeah those hanging lames don't appear much in early 14th armour but they show up with slightly more frequency in late 14th artwork.

Case in point...

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4395/8754/

[Ernst]

Closed greaves and "half-greaves" (probably schynbalds) appear side-by-side as early as the 1302 inventory at the death of Raoul de Nesle, Constable of France.

Item, ii harnas de gaumbes fourbis de coi les greves sont closes c s.
Item, unes autres demie greves fourbies iiii l.

[HRE1350]

Closed greaves and "half-greaves" (probably schynbalds) appear side-by-side as early as the 1302 inventory at the death of Raoul de Nesle, Constable of France.

Item, ii harnas de gaumbes fourbis de coi les greves sont closes c s.
Item, unes autres demie greves fourbies iiii l.

Even better.

[HRE1350]

Glad I decided to pull up that pic because I found some more similar helms in England at the time.

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4070/17279/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4070/17276/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4070/17275/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4070/17273/ <most like one in carving.

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4070/17282/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4070/17283/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4100/12684/