Armor info for Macbeth

steel_dragon · Post by **steel_dragon** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 1:04 am

Greetings, all!

I have recently volunteered to help with a production of Macbeth, and am to make armor for the production. We will be trying to be as period as possible, and I have been having difficulty finding descriptions or pictures of period armor.
I have had mild success with

I will have a decent budget to work with and will be responsible for making armor for MacBeth, MacDuff, Siward, Young Siward, and four of each English and Scottish soldiers. I will have access to pretty much any necessary tools as well.

Any suggestions as to armor/armament types, as well as resources to use (I'm in Houston, at Rice University, so commonly available / inter-library loan-able books are fair game--with an ISBN) would be most appreciated.

Bertram Entwessell · Post by **Bertram Entwessell** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 2:14 am

Are you setting it in Shakesperian times (I belive that plays in his time didn't involve period outfits) or at the time of the setting?

AnnaRidley · Post by **AnnaRidley** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 2:19 am

For a variety of early helmets with good quality diagrams showing how they go together try:

AY 17/8 The Anglian Helmet from Coppergate. Tweddle (1992) 350pp plus index, 206 illustrations, over 50 in colour, ISBN 1 872414 19 2,
was Â£40.00 - now Â£18.00 ( http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/pubs.htm )
One of only four helmets to survive in England from this period, this is arguably the most important single find from York. The helmet is described fully, with historical, art historical, technical and linguistic discussions, and comparisons with other European helmets are included.

steel_dragon · Post by **steel_dragon** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 11:18 am

The setting will be period rather than the slightly skewed Shakespearean setting, but slight anachronisims and a historical leeway of a century or so is permissible-- the costumer is considering (non-clan related) tartans and quasi-kilts.

I've also got access to a personal mail hauberk, so if that actually works in period, it would simplify things (maybe for one of the Siwards?)

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:30 pm

Coppergate is too early.If memory serves, Macbeth was killed in c. 1053, so you're talking about mid-11th century armours. That would basically be hauberks and simple spangen/nasal type helmets. This is before surcoats. Unfortunately, doing mail convincingly is not easy unless you do. make mail; and that's a long, tedious, prospect. You could always do the theatrical impression of early-period armour by sewing rings to a leather(-looking) foundation. That, to my mind, is far preferable than knitted material painted silver to represent mail.

Effingham

steel_dragon · Post by **steel_dragon** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 2:05 pm

Making mail is actually fine. I've got all of those soldiers I'd mentioned to cut and bend the rings, and 3/8" 17 ga. will go very quickly.

What about ring mail? Boiled leather? A COP?I have experience with most everything but plate (and that's not an issue, given the period), and have the resources to do most anything.

My primary concern is authenticity.

What sort of pattern for the mail would be appropriate? Mine is mid-thigh, half-arm, but alterations are easy. Also, would there be tabbards or anything over the soldier's armor, so I could get away with a skirt and arms attached to a gambeson?

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 11:14 pm

This period is far too early for any type of surcoat/tabard thing. You're looking at armour. Perhaps the soldiers could get by with the padded gambeson look. You're talking long sleeves, knee-length gambeson thingies, elbow or longer hauberks. Cops? Don't think so, except perhaps for the most basic elbow/knee bowls held in place with points to the foundation fabric.

Effingham

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:55 am

If want to skip some of the maille -- how about this look?

<img src=http://www.rpg.ru/np/foto/alting-98/177.jpg>

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Sun Jan 28, 2001 10:13 am

I don't think maille would show up very well on stage. For most I would go with quilted armour and spangens made from very light guage metal. Similar to the picture above (though I have no idea as to the guage)

For the main characters make the maille out of large thick rings so that they show up to the audience better. Best find some way to reduce the jingle sound as well, otherwise people may hear that more than the voices speaking.

icarus · Post by **icarus** » Sun Jan 28, 2001 10:58 am

loved macbeth ...played him once upon a time ....with our interpretation of the play ...well for starts ...it had to be placed in an era when two handed broadswords were the weapon of choice .....and we did go for full plate ....check out polanski's version ....this was the look we were going for.
and good luck

sasa · Post by **sasa** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 1:46 am

We are talking theatre, aren't we?
Some liberty and stilisation will do, I guess.

Padded armour is to warm, full chainmail to heavy. So you must shoot for something that has a nice look from 20+meters and is wearable - by actor's standards, not yours! Besides, spectator must be able to tell the differences between English and Scots without reference books

So instead of chain mail use only chain sleeves with tabards for English (yeah, not historically correct but will do), leather with rivited disks for Scottish main characters. Soldiers may be unarmoured. Almond-shaped shields for English, round ones for Scotts. Helmets for everybody! Plain "norman" for English, more ornate for Scotts

Guy Dawkins · Post by **Guy Dawkins** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 2:24 pm

Check out the Orsen Wells production. Its on video. Lots of leather and fur. Very much the look of soldiers on Xena. But first talk to the director and costume person as to what they think would fit with the rest of the production. Most of what your going to provide will be "tossed" on over the costumes they are already wearing. You're not going for authenticity but something that fits-in with the rest of the production.
The armor only has to "look" heavy.

Thomas Powers · Post by **Thomas Powers** » Mon Jan 29, 2001 5:04 pm

Quasi kilts would be right out timewise too!

Take a look at what people were actually wearing---and show it to the costumer! don't let the garb mess up the armour!

Thomas

Niccolo Barbaro · Post by **Niccolo Barbaro** » Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:45 pm

The Bayeux Tapestry would be a good source ;0

NB

Magmaforge · Post by **Magmaforge** » Fri Feb 02, 2001 11:08 pm

Dmitriy, I really like the look of that leather body armour? Can you give me info on it??

------------------
Magmaforge
"To Armour is to live"

Lyelf · Post by **Lyelf** » Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:02 pm

Your best source would be the Bayeaux Tapestry. http://www.sjolander.com/viking/museum/bt/bt.htm

The Scottish nobility were not yet Norman (the Bruces, Stewarts, et al were still in France), but the Native nobility had contact with the continent and with the Vikings. The Orkney Islands were either Norse or Scots depending on who the Jarl was being nice to this week.