As a newly active SCA member, I am spending most of my (sizable) SCA budget on armor and clothing. Thanks to all on this forum for helping me make my fighting kit more authentic.
I have not yet begun to worry about encampment. So far, we have day-tripped, or stayed in cabins. A motel has a lot of charm when you have small children.
But, encampment is on the one-of-these-days-pretty soon list. I have already been to Web sites that offer furniture patterns and ideas, and the same goes for tents. Lots of good information out there.
I have some modern camping stuff, and we'll start with that, pitched in the shameful ghetto of the field reserved for nylon and aluminum.
After reading the "Period Encampments" thread, here's the question I want to put to the group:
<h4>Where can you get the biggest improvement in camp authenticity for your first $250?</h4>
For example, should you fly banners over your Sears cabin tent? Get an iron tripod and kettle? Set up a water barrel? Build wooden chests? Put elephant ears and a trunk on your Chevy van? Get slip covers for all your gear?
Or, should we build a pavilion that isn't canvas but is at least the right size and shape? I think I could do it for under $100 and have money left over for candle lanterns, but it would be white poly (not blue, at least).
Remember - $250! I don't want any lectures on how a $2000 pavilion is worth the money. Some day it will be, but this is the Armor Archive, and I don't expect any grief for putting my money into armor first and foremost.
[This message has been edited by toweyb (edited 04-03-2001).]
Spinoff thread of "Period Encampments" (Bang for Buck)
Moderator: Glen K
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Templar Bob/De Tyre
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Do you have the standard woodworking tools?
If so, using that $250.00 for lumber to make yourself period camp furniture would be your best bargain. Look on the following places for plans and instructions:
Master Terafan's Page
Master Charles Oakley's Page
Hope this helps,
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Robert Coleman, Jr.
The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.
[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 04-03-2001).]
If so, using that $250.00 for lumber to make yourself period camp furniture would be your best bargain. Look on the following places for plans and instructions:
Master Terafan's Page
Master Charles Oakley's Page
Hope this helps,
------------------
Robert Coleman, Jr.
The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.
[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 04-03-2001).]
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Guy Dawkins
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- Location: Downers Grove,IL
I second the furniture route as the best use of your cash. You'll always be able to use the furniture at day events. Buying OOPs material now for a period shaped tent your just going to replace is just tossing out your cash.
Here is a URL to a page of furniture links you may find useful. Check out the bottom of the page for tent links too!
http://www.teleport.com/~tguptill/furniture.htm
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Guy
Here is a URL to a page of furniture links you may find useful. Check out the bottom of the page for tent links too!
http://www.teleport.com/~tguptill/furniture.htm
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Guy
thread, piping, and stake loop material: $40
Old metal cased sewing machine from the 50's: $20
lumber for poles: $10
50 yd. sunforger canvas from hamiltondrygoods.com: $175
total: $245
If you're considering tackling furniture, then a period anglo saxon wedge tent is well within your means and ability.
HELMUT
Old metal cased sewing machine from the 50's: $20
lumber for poles: $10
50 yd. sunforger canvas from hamiltondrygoods.com: $175
total: $245
If you're considering tackling furniture, then a period anglo saxon wedge tent is well within your means and ability.
HELMUT
I built my first tent from drop cloths. It was NOT the most effective use of my initial expenditures... real tents by real tentmakers are the only way to go. So use your Sears nylon popup, save your pennies, and make some other purchases.
I'll go with the furniture if you've got the tools; the materials are relatively cheap. You'll spend more time than anything. Also, a good throw rug to cover your patch of ground looks classy. Coverings for your mundane equipment, like blankets, etc. will also go a long way.
Mugs. Pop cans and beer bottles always spring up first to my eye, and I'm guilty of it myself.
Light. Tiki torches are better than Coleman lanterns, but if you need more light, find some old oil lamps from antique stores. Calontir has about 10 that are used in the Royal Pavilion; they hang high enough to not actively intrude, and flame is much preferable to the glaring Coleman light.
That's a good start. Start with mundane equivalents and acquire the period stuff slowly, no need to buy it all at once.
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Lochlainn
I'm a Liberal and I'm OK!
*Insert gratuitous inflammatory remark here*
I'll go with the furniture if you've got the tools; the materials are relatively cheap. You'll spend more time than anything. Also, a good throw rug to cover your patch of ground looks classy. Coverings for your mundane equipment, like blankets, etc. will also go a long way.
Mugs. Pop cans and beer bottles always spring up first to my eye, and I'm guilty of it myself.
Light. Tiki torches are better than Coleman lanterns, but if you need more light, find some old oil lamps from antique stores. Calontir has about 10 that are used in the Royal Pavilion; they hang high enough to not actively intrude, and flame is much preferable to the glaring Coleman light.
That's a good start. Start with mundane equivalents and acquire the period stuff slowly, no need to buy it all at once.
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Lochlainn
I'm a Liberal and I'm OK!
*Insert gratuitous inflammatory remark here*
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FrauHirsch
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Plates, bowls, eatingware, drinking vessels, period chairs or benches for you and your family, a candle lantern
These all can be brought to other period camps or banquets when you visit.
Then I'd go with cloth covers for ice chests and such (again, so you can cover up your non-period stuff when you set up in other camps at Tournaments).
Then a wooden table, then a tent. If you are handy with woodworking and decide to sew it yourself, all the above are possible for under $250.
Juliana
These all can be brought to other period camps or banquets when you visit.
Then I'd go with cloth covers for ice chests and such (again, so you can cover up your non-period stuff when you set up in other camps at Tournaments).
Then a wooden table, then a tent. If you are handy with woodworking and decide to sew it yourself, all the above are possible for under $250.
Juliana
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lochlainn:
I built my first tent from drop cloths. It was NOT the most effective use of my initial expenditures... real tents by real tentmakers are the only way to go. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lochlainn, what specific problems did you encounter with drop cloths?
I built my first tent from drop cloths. It was NOT the most effective use of my initial expenditures... real tents by real tentmakers are the only way to go. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lochlainn, what specific problems did you encounter with drop cloths?
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Le Brassey
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Tents are not easy to sew! Just the thickness of the layers of cloth, and the weight of the large assembled pieces can make sewing a tent a formidable challenge on the average home sewing machine and/or a novice. Be sure you are really up for it before you spend your money on materials.
That being said, it is indeed possible to make a tent at home. Just be prepared! You'll need a helper to move the canvas while you sew, so have a friend on-hand once the panels start going together.
---------------------------------------------
By the way, if your era allows you the use of a wedge tent, they can be had for under $250 including ropes, poles & stakes!
Jas Townsend offers the following:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><I>Convertible Wedge Tent
Wedge tent can be opened out as a leanto or even used as a large fly . Door on ends of tent overlap and tie to keep out weather. Flame resistant Sunforger© canvas. 7' wide, 7' tall, 8 1/2' long. Segmented 3 pole set available separately.
TE-84.....$205.00 </I></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Make your own poles from store-bought lumber, and buy a bunch of wrought-iron tent stakes---and you should still come in under $250.00.
http://www.jastown.com/
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Henri le Brassey
(mka: Timothy Finkas)
[This message has been edited by Le Brassey (edited 04-04-2001).]
That being said, it is indeed possible to make a tent at home. Just be prepared! You'll need a helper to move the canvas while you sew, so have a friend on-hand once the panels start going together.
---------------------------------------------
By the way, if your era allows you the use of a wedge tent, they can be had for under $250 including ropes, poles & stakes!
Jas Townsend offers the following:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><I>Convertible Wedge Tent
Wedge tent can be opened out as a leanto or even used as a large fly . Door on ends of tent overlap and tie to keep out weather. Flame resistant Sunforger© canvas. 7' wide, 7' tall, 8 1/2' long. Segmented 3 pole set available separately.
TE-84.....$205.00 </I></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Make your own poles from store-bought lumber, and buy a bunch of wrought-iron tent stakes---and you should still come in under $250.00.
http://www.jastown.com/
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Henri le Brassey
(mka: Timothy Finkas)
[This message has been edited by Le Brassey (edited 04-04-2001).]
I don't see how making a tent is any more monumental an undertaking than making your own armor...
I should have stated that the average plastic singer POS won't do the trick. You have to go to a flea market and get an old, metal cased, metal geared sewing machine. They run about $20 to $40. I've used my White for years. Wizard is another good model.
Granted, I've had some higher math courses, but all you need to know is basic geometry from 10th grade in order to work it out. It also helps to know something about sewing, and how fabric works.
But I can't stress this enough: use good materials!! If need be, make a mockup out of 99¢ muslin first, but don't use crap canvas. It'll come back to haunt you.
HELMUT
I should have stated that the average plastic singer POS won't do the trick. You have to go to a flea market and get an old, metal cased, metal geared sewing machine. They run about $20 to $40. I've used my White for years. Wizard is another good model.
Granted, I've had some higher math courses, but all you need to know is basic geometry from 10th grade in order to work it out. It also helps to know something about sewing, and how fabric works.
But I can't stress this enough: use good materials!! If need be, make a mockup out of 99¢ muslin first, but don't use crap canvas. It'll come back to haunt you.
HELMUT
Dropcloths:
1. Not at all mildew resistant. It mildewed and got holes after its first event.
2. Not sturdy enough for the shape I tried (wall tent). I couldn't pull it hard enough to get the lower part of the roof taut, so water would soak through there.
3. Oddly shaped. They weren't exactly sized correctly, so my seams and allowances were always a bit off.
On the other hand, it stood up to wind pretty well, and under the ridge beam where the roof is very sloped, it never leaked once. And it's cheap. It would be a very cheap way to make a tall, sloping wedge tent, but I wouldn't suggest it for anything else. It's just not durable enough. If I were to do it again, I'd have buckled down and bought 10oz preshrunk.
Now, for the cost of the time and money, in hindsight, I should have just bought from Panther.
This one will last me the rest of this year, probably. Then I'll get another one, and convert this to a shade fly.
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Lochlainn
I'm a Liberal and I'm OK!
*Insert gratuitous inflammatory remark here*
1. Not at all mildew resistant. It mildewed and got holes after its first event.
2. Not sturdy enough for the shape I tried (wall tent). I couldn't pull it hard enough to get the lower part of the roof taut, so water would soak through there.
3. Oddly shaped. They weren't exactly sized correctly, so my seams and allowances were always a bit off.
On the other hand, it stood up to wind pretty well, and under the ridge beam where the roof is very sloped, it never leaked once. And it's cheap. It would be a very cheap way to make a tall, sloping wedge tent, but I wouldn't suggest it for anything else. It's just not durable enough. If I were to do it again, I'd have buckled down and bought 10oz preshrunk.
Now, for the cost of the time and money, in hindsight, I should have just bought from Panther.
This one will last me the rest of this year, probably. Then I'll get another one, and convert this to a shade fly.
------------------
Lochlainn
I'm a Liberal and I'm OK!
*Insert gratuitous inflammatory remark here*
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FrauHirsch
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If you have no money, but more time, then a drop cloth tent might be a good starter to tide you over and they can often be sold off to the next newbie when you upgrade 
If your persona's period supports it, you can make a 9' tall 12x15' wedge tent with 1' sod flaps from 3 12'x15' canvas dropcloths. If rain is an issue, you can always throw another one over the top as an extra rain protection.
9 oz. Canvas: http://www.housemart.com/dept.asp?dept_id=5174&mdept_id=5177
So its possible to get the canvas for a family sized tent for about $80, but there is still at least $50 more costs needed for wood, stakes, thread and 20 yds of heavy twill tape for stake loops and ties.
But the ideal way to go is definitely with a Sunforger mildew resistant/flame retardant heavy canvas and then the extra you pay to have Panther do it is not worth making it yourself. They get such a huge discount by ordering canvas in bulk that it makes up for much of the construction cost.
My parents have landed some great deals on used tents in the Fur Trade Era re-enactment circuit. Some people are always upgrading or resizing their camps.
The good news is that wooden bowls and plates and wooden boxes and crates for seating and storage, old wool blankets for bags and bedding, and old brocade drapes and bedspreads for bags and covers can often be found at flea markets, thrift stores and garage sales. Keep your mind open for refinishing/painting or otherwise upgrading wooden chests and boxes.
Also some types of plain straight backed wooden chairs and wooden folding chairs are period depending on your persona. Hellava lot better than those nylon and aluminum umbrella folding chairs.
good luck,
Juliana
If your persona's period supports it, you can make a 9' tall 12x15' wedge tent with 1' sod flaps from 3 12'x15' canvas dropcloths. If rain is an issue, you can always throw another one over the top as an extra rain protection.9 oz. Canvas: http://www.housemart.com/dept.asp?dept_id=5174&mdept_id=5177
So its possible to get the canvas for a family sized tent for about $80, but there is still at least $50 more costs needed for wood, stakes, thread and 20 yds of heavy twill tape for stake loops and ties.
But the ideal way to go is definitely with a Sunforger mildew resistant/flame retardant heavy canvas and then the extra you pay to have Panther do it is not worth making it yourself. They get such a huge discount by ordering canvas in bulk that it makes up for much of the construction cost.
My parents have landed some great deals on used tents in the Fur Trade Era re-enactment circuit. Some people are always upgrading or resizing their camps.
The good news is that wooden bowls and plates and wooden boxes and crates for seating and storage, old wool blankets for bags and bedding, and old brocade drapes and bedspreads for bags and covers can often be found at flea markets, thrift stores and garage sales. Keep your mind open for refinishing/painting or otherwise upgrading wooden chests and boxes.
Also some types of plain straight backed wooden chairs and wooden folding chairs are period depending on your persona. Hellava lot better than those nylon and aluminum umbrella folding chairs.
good luck,
Juliana
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Le Brassey
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About 10 years ago, I bought an RK Lodges 10' x 10' marquis canopy---just the top of the tent, not the walls. The construction was of the appropriate weight Sunforger.
I made the walls myself from HEAVY-DUTY canvas dropcloths. When the wall is vertical, you can get away with a "less waterproof" material.
This tent has been in use now for 10 years. It's not in the best shape, but it still works. Here's a photo of it in use as my Gold-Rush store...
<image src=http://finkas.home.netcom.com/ArmourArchive/GoldRushStore.jpg>
Just a note: the name B. Swan stands for the name of my character, Bertram Swan. It has nothing to do with "Black Swan", one of the sub-entities of the fine folks at Historic Enterprises.
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Henri le Brassey
(mka: Timothy Finkas)
[This message has been edited by Le Brassey (edited 04-06-2001).]
I made the walls myself from HEAVY-DUTY canvas dropcloths. When the wall is vertical, you can get away with a "less waterproof" material.
This tent has been in use now for 10 years. It's not in the best shape, but it still works. Here's a photo of it in use as my Gold-Rush store...
<image src=http://finkas.home.netcom.com/ArmourArchive/GoldRushStore.jpg>
Just a note: the name B. Swan stands for the name of my character, Bertram Swan. It has nothing to do with "Black Swan", one of the sub-entities of the fine folks at Historic Enterprises.
------------------
Henri le Brassey
(mka: Timothy Finkas)
[This message has been edited by Le Brassey (edited 04-06-2001).]
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FrauHirsch
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Originally posted by Le Brassey:
<B>About 10 years ago, I bought an RK Lodges 10' x 10' marquis canopy---just the top of the tent, not the walls. The construction was of the appropriate weight Sunforger.
I made the walls myself from HEAVY-DUTY canvas dropcloths. When the wall is vertical, you can get away with a "less waterproof" material. </B>
Excellent point! And if you do the medieval/renn sloped walls you can get a fairly small roof. Add 6-7' walls with a 2' slope and the tent ends up a sizable 14x14' footprint with a nice sillouette and plenty of headroom. For most people an 8x10' roof with 2' sloped sides would be plenty big and the roof is definitely the biggest pain to make.
I made a pavilion kind of like that back in '80, but it was made from a blue plastic sunshade (hey, it was one of the only personal medievalish pavilions around back then I added cheap sloping cloth sides and dags. It actually held up to Bouse and Estrella wars pretty well and some intense wind and rain storms. When the roof is good, the rain wicks down the cloth sides even without being heavy fabric even when they are sloping. And this was not thick cloth. The sides did mildew and stain after one war though, but the sloped sides are a major difference in having a tent keep standing in storm weather.
If someone makes one, I'd recommend the flat peaked roof like Le Brassey shows or a round top, and sloped sides (I haven't seen a single peaked rectangular roof in period source, or a rectangle or square with straight vertical sides, anyone?)
Juliana
<B>About 10 years ago, I bought an RK Lodges 10' x 10' marquis canopy---just the top of the tent, not the walls. The construction was of the appropriate weight Sunforger.
I made the walls myself from HEAVY-DUTY canvas dropcloths. When the wall is vertical, you can get away with a "less waterproof" material. </B>
Excellent point! And if you do the medieval/renn sloped walls you can get a fairly small roof. Add 6-7' walls with a 2' slope and the tent ends up a sizable 14x14' footprint with a nice sillouette and plenty of headroom. For most people an 8x10' roof with 2' sloped sides would be plenty big and the roof is definitely the biggest pain to make.
I made a pavilion kind of like that back in '80, but it was made from a blue plastic sunshade (hey, it was one of the only personal medievalish pavilions around back then
I added cheap sloping cloth sides and dags. It actually held up to Bouse and Estrella wars pretty well and some intense wind and rain storms. When the roof is good, the rain wicks down the cloth sides even without being heavy fabric even when they are sloping. And this was not thick cloth. The sides did mildew and stain after one war though, but the sloped sides are a major difference in having a tent keep standing in storm weather.If someone makes one, I'd recommend the flat peaked roof like Le Brassey shows or a round top, and sloped sides (I haven't seen a single peaked rectangular roof in period source, or a rectangle or square with straight vertical sides, anyone?)
Juliana
OK, I'm still going to use drop cloth. I'm in California, so I don't expect too many soakings during re-enactment season. 
It's going to be an Anglo-Saxon geteld, which has a ridge pole running the length of the tent. Unfortunately, the ridge pole can't be much longer than seven feet, in order to get it inside my Pathfinder. Is this a reasonable length for the tent? I might add that a geteld is an early form of the double-ended wedge or bell tent (whatever you call the classic medieval paviliom), so its true length would be somewhat longer than 7' - what the heck I'm gonna build it anyway...
It's going to be an Anglo-Saxon geteld, which has a ridge pole running the length of the tent. Unfortunately, the ridge pole can't be much longer than seven feet, in order to get it inside my Pathfinder. Is this a reasonable length for the tent? I might add that a geteld is an early form of the double-ended wedge or bell tent (whatever you call the classic medieval paviliom), so its true length would be somewhat longer than 7' - what the heck I'm gonna build it anyway...
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Le Brassey
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Buran,
I am also from California. In the last 4 years of attending encampments in the SOuthern California area, it has rained or sleeted or hailed at 90% of the events!
As for your ridge-pole length considerations, you can section the pole into 2 sections with a bit of metal tubing or the like to join the 2 sections. Or buy an inexpensive roof rack to carry the poles. Just an idea.
Or course, 7 feet may be long enough, so perhaps you don't really have an issue. If the ends are "belled" you should gain a few feet at either end, as you say.
You may want to think about treating the dropcloth canvas for additional waterproofness & mildew resistance. Just make sure whatever you use is also fire resistant!
<image src=http://finkas.home.netcom.com/ArmourArchive/WedgeTent.jpg>
Another thought is to paint from the peak down a few inches. I'm envisioning a decorative treatment/band along the top of the tent (see illustration above). This could help improve the waterproofness---if your tent leaks at all, I'm guessing this would be a likely spot(?).
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Henri le Brassey
(mka: Timothy Finkas)
[This message has been edited by Le Brassey (edited 04-07-2001).]
I am also from California. In the last 4 years of attending encampments in the SOuthern California area, it has rained or sleeted or hailed at 90% of the events!
As for your ridge-pole length considerations, you can section the pole into 2 sections with a bit of metal tubing or the like to join the 2 sections. Or buy an inexpensive roof rack to carry the poles. Just an idea.
Or course, 7 feet may be long enough, so perhaps you don't really have an issue. If the ends are "belled" you should gain a few feet at either end, as you say.
You may want to think about treating the dropcloth canvas for additional waterproofness & mildew resistance. Just make sure whatever you use is also fire resistant!
<image src=http://finkas.home.netcom.com/ArmourArchive/WedgeTent.jpg>
Another thought is to paint from the peak down a few inches. I'm envisioning a decorative treatment/band along the top of the tent (see illustration above). This could help improve the waterproofness---if your tent leaks at all, I'm guessing this would be a likely spot(?).
------------------
Henri le Brassey
(mka: Timothy Finkas)
[This message has been edited by Le Brassey (edited 04-07-2001).]
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toweyb
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Thanks for all the comments, folks. There seems to be a slight majority in favor of moving out of the geodesic ghetto into the ranks of respectable tents, with the dissenters leaning toward furniture and fittings.
The stronger consensus seems to be that pavilions should be canvas or nothing, right? That a period-shaped pavilion made from synthetic fabric is an abomination? I'm surprised to hear it.
There was a Ren Fair here about a week ago, and I got a good look at all the vendors' tents. Only one was canvas (a very nice Viking wedge). All the rest were poly-something. Most of them looked way better, to my eye, than any modern camping tent.
What about plywood for furniture? Is that an abomination, too? Many of the patterns listed on the sites above were for 1/2" ply.
The stronger consensus seems to be that pavilions should be canvas or nothing, right? That a period-shaped pavilion made from synthetic fabric is an abomination? I'm surprised to hear it.
There was a Ren Fair here about a week ago, and I got a good look at all the vendors' tents. Only one was canvas (a very nice Viking wedge). All the rest were poly-something. Most of them looked way better, to my eye, than any modern camping tent.
What about plywood for furniture? Is that an abomination, too? Many of the patterns listed on the sites above were for 1/2" ply.
I lean towrds the tent first, furnishings later, camp. You can always hide the modern stuff in the tent!
Canvas is the way, and it is good. With a synthetic pavillion, you'll gain all of a period tent's problems, set up and such, and none of the major advantages, like cooler than nylon in the sun, warmer in the cold, etc.
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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"
Canvas is the way, and it is good. With a synthetic pavillion, you'll gain all of a period tent's problems, set up and such, and none of the major advantages, like cooler than nylon in the sun, warmer in the cold, etc.
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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"
Yes, you can take a half-assed stab at being more authentic and use Nylon for your pavilion and plywood for your furniture.
The question is: Just what are you trying to achieve?
If you are looking for a cheap improvement over your old mundane gear, yes, the half-assed effort is a better way to go.
But, why improve at all? If you want to get more out of your SCA experience, if you want to experience what a person in the middle ages experienced, then nylon and plywood doesn't get you any closer at all.
In fact, you would have WASTED time, effort and money to come out with something that didn't take you any further back in time. I'd keep the nylon dome for the time being and put that $250 TOWARD the $600 needed to get the canvas tent.
As to plywood-it will still look like plywood. It will not give you a period feel. It will give you the feeling of being in a bad play.
The question is: Just what are you trying to achieve?
If you are looking for a cheap improvement over your old mundane gear, yes, the half-assed effort is a better way to go.
But, why improve at all? If you want to get more out of your SCA experience, if you want to experience what a person in the middle ages experienced, then nylon and plywood doesn't get you any closer at all.
In fact, you would have WASTED time, effort and money to come out with something that didn't take you any further back in time. I'd keep the nylon dome for the time being and put that $250 TOWARD the $600 needed to get the canvas tent.
As to plywood-it will still look like plywood. It will not give you a period feel. It will give you the feeling of being in a bad play.
Now hold on... I'm not going to encourage you to use plywood. It is period, but I've never seen it used in furniture. But there is one thing you can do to any wood to make it look good, and that's a smart coat of paint.
The reason I was encouraging making a tent is that I've found that you need a very small investment in tools. Almost all your cost is in materials (which I still insist should be upper grade canvas if you're going to spend the time).
Contrast that to furniture: yeah, you can make it with a $10 saw, a bow drill, a couple files and a scraper, but are you going to? If not, there's at least $200 of tools you should have.
If you make bad furniture, as it's been called, spend the five bucks and ten hours to put a good design on it with paint. People painted everything before society inflicted the current beige nightmare on us.
Think about the tourney fences you've seen: bring up a mental image of the unfinished 2x4 fences you've seen vs. the painted ones. Add a design on them, and it looks pretty good all of a sudden.
HELMUT
The reason I was encouraging making a tent is that I've found that you need a very small investment in tools. Almost all your cost is in materials (which I still insist should be upper grade canvas if you're going to spend the time).
Contrast that to furniture: yeah, you can make it with a $10 saw, a bow drill, a couple files and a scraper, but are you going to? If not, there's at least $200 of tools you should have.
If you make bad furniture, as it's been called, spend the five bucks and ten hours to put a good design on it with paint. People painted everything before society inflicted the current beige nightmare on us.
Think about the tourney fences you've seen: bring up a mental image of the unfinished 2x4 fences you've seen vs. the painted ones. Add a design on them, and it looks pretty good all of a sudden.
HELMUT
I respectfully disagree re: painted plywood.
If you paint plywood, you will have a colored surface that lacks the character that a constructed surface made from multiple boards will have. The edges will look like painted plywood, and the individual layers will show through. I've seen examples of period boxes, and I 've seen painted plywood boxes. I know I'm a purist, but it still looked like painted plywood to me. Besides, period construction techniques do not work well with plywood.
MY main beef with plywood is that many people make things like the "tourney table" in Knowne World Handbook. It ends up looking like props in a play, not something that lends medieval character to a setting. (Yes, you can cover it with a tablecloth to hide it)
I guess once you've seen the good stuff, it's hard to go back.
If you paint plywood, you will have a colored surface that lacks the character that a constructed surface made from multiple boards will have. The edges will look like painted plywood, and the individual layers will show through. I've seen examples of period boxes, and I 've seen painted plywood boxes. I know I'm a purist, but it still looked like painted plywood to me. Besides, period construction techniques do not work well with plywood.
MY main beef with plywood is that many people make things like the "tourney table" in Knowne World Handbook. It ends up looking like props in a play, not something that lends medieval character to a setting. (Yes, you can cover it with a tablecloth to hide it)
I guess once you've seen the good stuff, it's hard to go back.
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Le Brassey
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I agree. Don't use plywood for stools, benches, chests & such. It's not much more difficult to use boards instead.
For a tabletop, I use a cedar gate, bought from the hardware store. I just cut the pointed ends off the top. I use the tabletop I made on 2 sawhorses I made from a cedar landscape logs (you can see the set-up in the Gold-Rush store photo above).
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Henri le Brassey
(mka: Timothy Finkas)
[This message has been edited by Le Brassey (edited 04-11-2001).]
For a tabletop, I use a cedar gate, bought from the hardware store. I just cut the pointed ends off the top. I use the tabletop I made on 2 sawhorses I made from a cedar landscape logs (you can see the set-up in the Gold-Rush store photo above).
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Henri le Brassey
(mka: Timothy Finkas)
[This message has been edited by Le Brassey (edited 04-11-2001).]
WEll, Schrieber, you may have meant something else, but unfortunately, we really need someone to demonize so we can pull together as a group.
Since the plastic wars have been there, done that, it falls on your shoulders to take the hit as the new anti-authenticity weenie.
Mind you, we will continue to rail against you so that you must concede and tell us that we were right all along. Do not expect us to hang out with you at any events until this has been over for several months. \
Your pleas for tolerance will go unheeded. Your insistence that we are mis-interpreting your intentions will only be cause for further derision and ridicule.
So, get on your knees and beg for forgiveness while you can, worm. Admit that you were trying to further the cause of Godless, Frito-eating plywood lovers and their bastard child, plastic armor. Or, suffer the wrath of our ineptness.
HAve a nice day!
Trevor
Since the plastic wars have been there, done that, it falls on your shoulders to take the hit as the new anti-authenticity weenie.
Mind you, we will continue to rail against you so that you must concede and tell us that we were right all along. Do not expect us to hang out with you at any events until this has been over for several months. \
Your pleas for tolerance will go unheeded. Your insistence that we are mis-interpreting your intentions will only be cause for further derision and ridicule.
So, get on your knees and beg for forgiveness while you can, worm. Admit that you were trying to further the cause of Godless, Frito-eating plywood lovers and their bastard child, plastic armor. Or, suffer the wrath of our ineptness.
HAve a nice day!
Trevor
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Le Brassey:
<B>Another thought is to paint from the peak down a few inches. I'm envisioning a decorative treatment/band along the top of the tent (see illustration above). This could help improve the waterproofness---if your tent leaks at all, I'm guessing this would be a likely spot(?).
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bonjour Henri:
Looks nice, for the period it's from. I haven't mastered the art of inserting graphics, so we'll make do with a reference to a friend's site (BTW it's an Anglo-Saxon tent):
http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/image/getelds.jpg
PS to Herr Schreiber: I believe they used a lot of oak in those days, but also other woods as well. Bare wood can be very beautiful, if it's finished well with some linseed oil...
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<><><> <><><> <><><>
http://www.geocities.com/baldurstrand/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/California_Viking_Age
[This message has been edited by Buran (edited 04-12-2001).]
<B>Another thought is to paint from the peak down a few inches. I'm envisioning a decorative treatment/band along the top of the tent (see illustration above). This could help improve the waterproofness---if your tent leaks at all, I'm guessing this would be a likely spot(?).
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bonjour Henri:
Looks nice, for the period it's from. I haven't mastered the art of inserting graphics, so we'll make do with a reference to a friend's site (BTW it's an Anglo-Saxon tent):
http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/image/getelds.jpg
PS to Herr Schreiber: I believe they used a lot of oak in those days, but also other woods as well. Bare wood can be very beautiful, if it's finished well with some linseed oil...
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<><><> <><><> <><><>
http://www.geocities.com/baldurstrand/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/California_Viking_Age
[This message has been edited by Buran (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Le Brassey
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IT IS NOT HERESY!!! I WILL NOT RECANT!!!
LONG LIVE DARK VICTORY!!!
TIKI TORCHES FOR EVERYONE!!!
Seriously, I agree with you about nice furniture. I, for one, can't afford to make stuff out of green wood yet, and consider painted pine an adequate cop out.
Don't use laminated boards, though.
And I still say make a tent.
On a scale of 1-10, here's what I'd like to sit on.
1. Uncovered cooler
2. aluminum camp stool
3. covered cooler
4. grass
5. carpet/ blanket
6. log
7. painted pine furniture
8. peasant
9. period furniture
10. cushions in middle eastern huka den
Helmut
LONG LIVE DARK VICTORY!!!
TIKI TORCHES FOR EVERYONE!!!
Seriously, I agree with you about nice furniture. I, for one, can't afford to make stuff out of green wood yet, and consider painted pine an adequate cop out.
Don't use laminated boards, though.
And I still say make a tent.
On a scale of 1-10, here's what I'd like to sit on.
1. Uncovered cooler
2. aluminum camp stool
3. covered cooler
4. grass
5. carpet/ blanket
6. log
7. painted pine furniture
8. peasant
9. period furniture
10. cushions in middle eastern huka den
Helmut
How do you keep the peasant from shifting after you've been sitting on their back for over an hour? I use a baseball bat, but my friends all complain that a mace would be more authentic...
Le Brassey, I'll have to check out that cedar gate idea. I've been using plywood because building from new planks doesn't work for the cost-concious (i.e. cheap) reenactor...thanks. I will say that brightly painted plywood passes the 10' rule. If you want a quick authenticity fix, plywood could work, but if you want a highly authentic encampment, cut boards are the way to go. Oh, all you need to make plywood furniture is a saber saw ($35), layout tools (tape measure $10, t-square $8), and maybe a chisel ($8), so the tools are not a big investment. Different story for higher-quality woodworking, even without power tools. With power tools...various companies will allow you to spend an almost infinite amount of money on power tools, bless their hearts. A set of tools necessary for cabinet-making can run from $500 to $30,000 or higher
.
Le Brassey, I'll have to check out that cedar gate idea. I've been using plywood because building from new planks doesn't work for the cost-concious (i.e. cheap) reenactor...thanks. I will say that brightly painted plywood passes the 10' rule. If you want a quick authenticity fix, plywood could work, but if you want a highly authentic encampment, cut boards are the way to go. Oh, all you need to make plywood furniture is a saber saw ($35), layout tools (tape measure $10, t-square $8), and maybe a chisel ($8), so the tools are not a big investment. Different story for higher-quality woodworking, even without power tools. With power tools...various companies will allow you to spend an almost infinite amount of money on power tools, bless their hearts. A set of tools necessary for cabinet-making can run from $500 to $30,000 or higher
.<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Le Brassey:
<B>Buran,
Those are great-looking tents! What research or evidence are they based on?
Thanks!
Henri</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, they're pure fantasy. ;> Meanwhile, look here:
http://www.mathomhouse.com/regia/notes/tents/notes.html
And as far as bang for the buck, as long as you have the free time, get a few simple tools (roughly period) and make things yourself. This is both cheaper and more rewarding.
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<><><> <><><> <><><>
http://www.geocities.com/baldurstrand/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/California_Viking_Age
<B>Buran,
Those are great-looking tents! What research or evidence are they based on?
Thanks!
Henri</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, they're pure fantasy. ;> Meanwhile, look here:
http://www.mathomhouse.com/regia/notes/tents/notes.html
And as far as bang for the buck, as long as you have the free time, get a few simple tools (roughly period) and make things yourself. This is both cheaper and more rewarding.
------------------
<><><> <><><> <><><>
http://www.geocities.com/baldurstrand/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/California_Viking_Age