Tooling hardened leather armor

[Transcendentaltopiary]

I need some info on how to go about tooling leather that will be hardened for use as armor in sca heavy fighting and combat archery. No one in my local sca tools their armor so I'm not getting much help there, or on another leatherworking forum I'm on and a few fb groups. (Do people not do this? The members in my sca seemed very interested in having tooled armor just not tooling it themselves ) I've also spent many hours looking for info but haven't found the answers to my specific questions.

I plan on taking my cut pattern piece (~10 oz veg tan) and getting it pretty well soaked with water then shaping and baking it in an oven at around 120°f. When the leather is no longer soaking wet but still damp (comparable to properly cased leather) I'll remove it, do any sk and tooling, keeping the shape, then put it back in the oven to fully dry. Once dry I'll paint on a few layers of wax reheating between coats until the leather is fully saturated with wax to further harden it and reduce the risk of it becoming too brittle and cracking with repeated impacts.

Does this seem like the proper way to tool leather that will be hardened? I want to know what to expect without wasting too much leather. Other meathods I looked into seem like they swell and shrink the leather quite a bit and you loose definition in your tooling. Just not sure how fast the leather hardens up when still damp out of the oven to get started on the tooling.

Another option i thought of is hardening the leather and doing my tooling on a separate thinner leather that wont be hardened and stitching that onto the hardened leather, just not sure if stitching holes would compromise the durability of the armor with repeated abuse. This way also increases the final cost of the armor because it uses more leather so I'd rather do it another way.

Thanks for any insight on this, it's greatly appreciated.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

You should tool the leather before it's hardened at all. I heat the oven to 300 degrees and let the leather (which is wetter than "damp" but not quite "soaking") sit for about 10-15 minutes to achieve a very hard finish that does not require wax to maintain stiffness. Though not much of my personal work has been used for SCA combat, my method is based on those used by a number of reputable SCA leather armorers.

I've never had any issue with even the most intricate tooling being damaged by shrinking or deformation during the heating process. If that happens then you're doing it wrong - the leather is possibly too wet or the oven too hot. Here's some tooled 12 oz vegetable tanned leather as an example...

Fresh out of the oven:

http://img13.deviantart.net/e358/i/2016 ... 9pac3p.jpg

After being treated with neatsfoot oil and dyed and painted:

http://orig14.deviantart.net/a1b5/f/201 ... 9peu79.jpg

http://img10.deviantart.net/8038/i/2016 ... 9psayx.jpg

[losthelm]

I do the tooling/dye before shaping/hardening in the oven at 200, it takes a bit but works well.
Adding wax, or doing an acrylic finish helps keep water out and proves over all durability.

The "shrink" with the oven bake method is minor, any detail lost is due to the pre oven wetting.
This technique only works with veg tan leather.
For test pieces consider barrets, single archery vambraces and such.

[Transcendentaltopiary]

Thank you guys so much! All the info i had read was saying to bake at a lower temp, so I'm a bit surprised to see your temps are that high. How long are you leaving it in the oven for?

Those bracers look fantastic! Up until now I've only been making wallets, bags, journal covers, that sort of thing. So I'm excited to get started on armor and thinking bracers or vambraces would be a good starter project. Will update when i get started on it but I'm waiting for a sale over at tandy

[losthelm]

Unless you have a tandy close by where you can choose your leather.
Other shops often have better prices but you can endup with scars, brands, or other flaws in the hide.


The cook time varies depending on a lot of factors, most of Us start around 15 minutes, and check until its done.
After hardening paint before wax/sealing. paint doesn't stick well to either top coats.
The wax/sealing will darken dyes a bit.
10oz maybe a little thin depending on what your making.

[Transcendentaltopiary]

Yeah i have a tandy 2 towns over, i like looking at the leather before i buy it, I'll go thru the entire stack to find the one hide I'm happy with.

Yeah i might not dye at all and rely on the wax for color, unless I'm looking for black which I'll either dye or vinegroom.

I was hoping 10oz would be good to get started making some bracers/vambraces.
This will mostly be armor for the women in my sca for now as they prefer it since it's not as heavy as the steel/aluminum etc that the guys mostly wear

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Thank you guys so much! All the info i had read was saying to bake at a lower temp, so I'm a bit surprised to see your temps are that high. How long are you leaving it in the oven for?

Okay, I'm no scientist, but this is what I've gathered from my own research and experience:

The faster wet leather dries, the harder it will usually become. During the baking process water molecules are sucked out of the "pores" in the leather by the heat, which tightens the remaining material rather like glue drying (i.e. disjointed molecules forming tighter bonds upon exposure to air - in this case using water and heat to get results). So, getting the right combination of wetness and heat is a major factor in determining what the resulting stiffness will be. It's especially important that the leather is wet all the way through, but not too wet, because then the outside will dry much faster than the inside of the leather, which will threaten to burn the exterior before the whole piece is baked through. Sometimes I even take the leather out of the oven and dab more water onto the surface to keep it from burning while the inside is still drying.

I've found that cooking at higher temperatures and keeping a careful eye on my products tends to make the hardest leather, but I also often deal with a little bit of crispness or darkening around the edges, especially on smaller pieces. I usually cut or sand any crispy edges away and neatsfoot oil tends to even out the surface color nicely even if some areas have been "tanned" by the heat.

Cheers!

-Gerhard

[Transcendentaltopiary]

Makes sence^
Kindof like finding that honey spot for casing to tool, seems I'll have to play around to find that dampness needed to achieve the hardness i want. Thanks

[John S.]

One proposed explanation for bake hardening leather is that the wet heat causes the collagen molecules to denature. These denatured molecules tend to attract one another. As the moisture bakes off, the collagen molecules renature in a tangled-up cross linked state. As the collagen molecules renature, they try to shrink the piece. The leather resists this--especially if the piece is tacked to a form. The resulting tension makes the piece stiffer. I've heard 147 F floated around as the denaturing temperature of collagen, but that undoubtedly varies with other parameters such as pH and the presence of tannins in the leather.

Leather is just a polymer like any of the plastics we use every day. Look at the "Easy Bake Armor" thread about forming plastic armor. Search for old threads about bake hardening or water hardening. They're basically the same process. The only difference is that the leather is formed with wet heat at a lower temperature and plastic is formed with dry heat a much higher temperature.

I've had successful results bake hardening leather using the following parameters:
*Leather fairly wet but not dripping.
*Temperature >150 and <<200 F. The lower the temperature is within this range, the longer it takes to dry but the less likely the piece is to shrink and wrinkle like cracklins.
*Bake until dry. This can take a long time. Check at regular intervals.

Other notes:
*Sometimes I've lost "depth" to tooling during hardening but the pattern always survives unless the piece gets too hot and shrinks--at which point it's ruined anyway.
*Veg tan is accessible and works well. "Half tan" or partially veg tanned leather might be better but is difficult to find. Rawhide might bake harden but the community consensus is that it is impossible to tool.
*I haven't tacked the piece to a form, but would like to try that in the future.
*Try throwing a baking stone on the bottom rack to even out the oven temperature. Don't put your project directly on the top rack. Use a couple cookie sheets to keep your project from deforming around the wire rack.
*If you throw on a pair of oven mitts and free-hand shape the hot, wet leather, you will feel it go a bit stretchy and "plastic" at some point. I hypothesize that this happens when the collagen molecules denature.
*It is sometimes worth hot stuffing your hardened leather with hide glue (AKA gelatin.) Dissolve it in water and paint it on your project with a paint brush. Heat your project back to the hardening temperature and let the hide glue absorb. This adds collagen molecules and makes the piece stiffer. This is especially helpful when using the thinner parts of a saddle skirting side.
*A wax coat works as a sealant. Make sure that the piece is completely bone dry when you submerge it in the wax, otherwise it will shrink and wrinkle as any residual moisture rapidly exits the leather.
*The wax sealant also lubricates the leather, making it easier to cut and punch holes through. Some sort of top coat like an egg white wash or varnish might give better finished properties and be more medieval. I intend to try art store acrylic varnish on my next project. (Only on the hardened leather, not on the straps since varnish cracks when flexed.)
*Dye before hardening or paint with art store acrylic paint afterwords.
*In addition to traditional tooling, look up other decorative techniques like embossing. Also consider decorative rivets to simulate interior splints.

[Transcendentaltopiary]

Awesome tips!

Yeah i heard 120, 140 and 180° f most commonly when looking to water harden leather, either by dipping in hot water or baking. As little shrinkage and warping as possible would be best if i want it to be tooled. Going to play around with temps and see what i end up with.

I'll be using my oven... the one i cook food in. Is there anything i should be concerned with when using it?

[John S.]

I bake the leather on dedicated cookie sheets that I never use for food. Leather dye tends to be poisonous and you will notice it staining the cookie sheets over time. Same idea with any tools you use to grab the hot leather--don't use them for food.

If you seal with hot wax, keep another set of dedicated dishes for it. I use a foil roasting pan on top of the previously mentioned cookie sheets. Wax is flammable. Look up the flash point and keep the temperature well below it. Some folks use a double boiler or water bath.

If anything spills, let your oven cool and use a can of oven cleaner on it.

Take any other precautions you feel necessary.

[Zetheros]

that's super awesome @Gerhard!

[Transcendentaltopiary]

I bake the leather on dedicated cookie sheets that I never use for food. Leather dye tends to be poisonous and you will notice it staining the cookie sheets over time. Same idea with any tools you use to grab the hot leather--don't use them for food.

If you seal with hot wax, keep another set of dedicated dishes for it. I use a foil roasting pan on top of the previously mentioned cookie sheets. Wax is flammable. Look up the flash point and keep the temperature well below it. Some folks use a double boiler or water bath.

If anything spills, let your oven cool and use a can of oven cleaner on it.

Take any other precautions you feel necessary.

Thanks! Don't plan to use dye, wax darkens quite a bit and gives great color

[John S.]

A few more inspiration pics for you:

*Cuisses with simple decoration http://s844.photobucket.com/user/schrei ... ort=3&o=14,
*Another way of attaching straps http://s844.photobucket.com/user/schrei ... ort=3&o=12, and
*A progress pic of a safety gorget with more shape than the typical dog collar http://s844.photobucket.com/user/schrei ... sort=3&o=0.

[John S.]

Is there a specific historical look you'd like to emulate with your first project? Do you have a pattern picked out?

[Konstantin the Red]

The nice thing about water hardening your 10 to 15oz vege-tan leather is that it is lighter weight than any impregnation method, such as wax or acrylic floor finish. Saving ounces is significant on vambraces or one-piece lace-up formfitting cased greaves that go all the way round your lower leg to lovely effect. The water hardened leather is springy enough you can snap such a greave onto your lower leg to put it on. We can find you documentation on this kind of limb armor having some vogue in the last quarter of the fourteenth century on continental Europe. Though the pix of it I've seen don't show carved or tooled decoration of such greaves. Still... it's at worst an Arts & Sciences competitor.

Such greaves are rigid enough to require very little in the way of cushioning for full protective effect. Your articulated knee joint armor above the greave, though, should be in steel, cop and lames. Leather drags on articulation rivets, and is best used on such things as hang upon flexible internal leathers in the fashion of taces, tassets, and spaudlers. For cost reasons in getting that much leather, I'd not recommend making any large, one-piece torso armor from hardened leather unless price is *really* no object. Go instead for a decorative, tooled safety gorget in that hardened leather. A much more reasonable amount of material and expense.

(Should you eventually accumulate a great many leather scraps as big as your palm or bigger, you've got the option of expending them all as lamellar or sport-armour coat of plates and clearing that scrap-bin. A scaly fauld is also authentic to 14th-c. harness, though even in metal these were rare to judge from period artwork. No such fauld has come down intact, not even as a few fragments. Scales may have been too attractive as material to recycle into cheap munition armor of a later time and style, and thus was entirely expended in that manner, with none left around for a museum.)

A worked and embossed leather appliqué such as you were considering might make good decoration on another hard armor material: canvas laminated armor. That stuff can be most excellently formfitting, cheap per piece if you get Titebond III glue in large containers -- volume discount -- and is built up like papier-maché, of torn strips layered on with glue. No heat to work it, no noise, practically no tools either except some sanding to neaten up the edges when the glue is fully dried, and a drill for holes -- I don't think anyone has tried tooling it in the fashion of leather; I doubt this composite of canvas and glue would tool. Usually it has nice pretty new cloth smoothed carefully over its exterior, perhaps its interior as well, to make it look nice inside as well as outside. But you could stick tooled leather accents or decorations onto the public side of these things with more Titebond or household cement. Tooling and decorating where the straps anchor, anyway. You could end up being the blingiest combatant on the field by the time you were done.

Very decorative armor also develops your abilities as a fighter quickly -- you have to learn, because nearly everybody you come up against in tournament is going to take one good look and think you're a Duke or something. They will bring their A game to the match, so you'll need to develop one. Fortunately since you're just starting with one pretty piece, you'll have time to develop your fencing skill and your power hits. You could become a legend.

Dedicated cookie sheets -- or some plywood or a plank. Just don't let the wire oven racks touch your leather, as it will scorch and be destroyed. Wadded paper or paper towel over balled-up aluminum seem effective for holding the damp leather up until baked hard. Low temp (around 180 F) baking can run from about 30 minutes to as long as a few hours. Gregory's hi-temp oven setting is an outlier, and you'd very much have to watch your time. The denaturing reaction happens at an internal temp of 167 F.

[Transcendentaltopiary]

The armor isn't really for me, although I'd like to get into archery so some bracers and archers gloves would be nice to own to protect my skin. My persona is 9th century scandinavian and they really didn't wear much in the way of armor that can be found in historical records. Helmet and shield.

I have a bad back so heavy fighting unfortunately is not something i can do but i enjoy watching it and would love to build armor for those who can do it. The women in my sca perfer leather because it is not as heavy as steel so whatever they would want made up for them I'd like to able to oblige. Lamellar is something I'd definitely like to build in the future. I wouldn't be rivetting hardened leather to hardened leather, as you said it has aweful articulation, id use non hardened lighter weight straps..

[Konstantin the Red]

I think it was poster Pitbull came up with doubling up the vertical articulation leathers for durability -- instead of a single leather, he put in two soft-leather straps. He said they were much less likely to tear. And you didn't have to punch or drill any more fastener holes in the hardened stuff, such as you'd do if you just multiplied the number of leathers. In his case, he was working in metal -- this was after he'd got his start in plastic stuff.

I've come to the view that there's nothing wrong in stiffeners and reinforces in concealed plastic included in mainly-leather pieces, for SCA.

Some of us are devout metal-heads; others say getting newbs into good harness which they can work themselves with very small outlay in tools and materials is the true way.

[Transcendentaltopiary]

Yeah the ladies in my sca wear a lot of plastic, cover it up with what looks like a potato sack tunic and throw on a good helmet and they're ready to fight.

[Konstantin the Red]

Your shire -- and perhaps yourself -- might be keen on the Easybake Armor method of forming plastic gear. The method involves heating your HDPE sheet/scrounged bucket/blue barrel to 350-400 F and pressing it onto positive molds power-sanded and rasped out of ordinary wood. Once the positive molds are right and you've climbed a bit of a learning curve on wrestling floppy 350 F plastic into place and clamping, you're set up to produce well shaped armor components in quantity, for cheap -- good beginner gear, good reinforcement components, and easy enough to go with quite authentic contours. Improves the style for the new builders, who would otherwise be trying to work with the same ill-adapted stuff *we* started out on.

For lightweight harness, you can read my musings on the "standalone gambeson" a/k/a "standy gamby." Me as author. I usually write that with a hyphen, but the Searchbutton function won't cooperate with any hyphens. Guess it reads hyphens as term exclusion signs and that bollixes the search results. Most of what I've written refers to this from Best of The Hammer:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=178354

There is also the "fight light flight" harness, designed both for light weight and very compact stowage in a flight bag.

Anyway, re Easybake:

But the jist of it is: drape forming. HDPE (barrel plastic) has a thermoforming range of 300-400 F, at which point it's basically super hot taffy. That's about a hundred fifty degrees hotter than most SCA garage armorers work. Also, HDPE (seems to) require a soak time for the plastic to take the shape you're forming and must cool slowly (ask me how I found out!), and that makes it way too hot to try to form on the body. So, complex shapes require forms. The forms can be simple but clever, like the adjustable ones we're trying to make, or *super* low tech. But ALSO, when HDPE is left to soak at thermoforming temperatures, the plastic sheet contracts, thickens and essentially wants to shrivel up. So, the plastic has to be firmly held down around its edges the whole time.

. . . I'm going to keep plugging at this and try to make the process as simple and streamlined as possible, so that every newbie can look up an Instructable and go, "I can totally do that."

Oh, also: at 300-400 degrees, wood will NOT catch fire. But it will smoke out all its volatiles. Just sayin'.

That was from this thread. There followed Easybake Armor: the sculpted plastic armor thread.

[Transcendentaltopiary]

I'm really more interested in working with leather. I already make wallets, purses, journals and would like to expand my portfolio

[Konstantin the Red]

I knew I was going far afield. I just hope that a good idea of what's also out there in the armouring field that's accessible to men without junior-league stithies complete with arcwelders would be helpful.

Any desire to try making a pair or two of tooled, hardened leather demigaunts for the baskethilt guys?

[Transcendentaltopiary]

No worries, it is good to know there are other materials that can be used. The ladies in my sca use quite a bit of barrel plastic under their tunics.

Not sure who the baskethikt guys are and i need to get some hands on exp before i start making stuff for others. Took up archery the other day and bruised the crap out of my arm so I'll be experimenting on a bracer here real quick. Hopefully i fugured out what was wrong with my form and I'll learn from my mistakes

[Konstantin the Red]

The baskethilties are the heavy fighters operating on a budget: a welded steel basket hilt for their sword is quite cheap and highly efficient protection for their fingers. The most common cheap baskethilts are no-frills constructions of rod stock, strong in protection and massive enough to balance the sword as well.

Steel baskethilts could, and do, develop farther into more ornamental and historical constructions and types, ranging from very popular 17th-c. and 18th-c. Scottish styles to such exotica as the Schiavona; less common are the 16th/17th-c. arming-sword copies, which patterns/styles would be just as efficient, while looking less utilitarian and not-Renaissance in their styles.

An SCA Schiavona

These hilts cover the fingers, shelter about half the metacarpals, and the base of the thumb and nearby wrist area well, but the rest of the wrist is still just out there in the breeze and it does get hit often enough -- a wrist joint sufficiently damaged hardly ever recovers to what it once was. We don't like busting wrists. This is where the demigauntlet, extending to the knuckles and even curling a little bit over, with a gauntlet cuff covering the wrist, comes in. We've done well with these in very heavy leather, water hardened leather, aluminum and steel.

A heavy fighter may eventually decide that a basket is just too anachronistic for a guy who fights in, say, a bucket helm and a hauberk. So he wants his swords cross-hilted, and his hands safe in steel gauntlets, either finger- or more usually and cheaply, mitten-type. For a certain value of "cheaply," that is, as good gauntlets that fit and move well with his hand can cost a fighter more than he paid for his helmet. Other heavy fighters, still watching their pennies, will stick with their baskets -- and still seek wrist armor. A gauntlet cuff is the best coverage, for armor vambraces should run a little short for best comfort and trimming a bit of weight. The comfort comes in in not covering the ulnar wrist bump with the vamb, nor even touching it -- rubs it raw. So a little volume worked into the gauntlet as a corresponding ulnar bump in the cuff of the gaunt or just plain having the entire cuff stand clear of this bony process makes for good armor design about the wrist and forearm.

Ironmonger Armoury is one outfit that sells handsome basket hilts.


Here is a basket in the classic SCA style. The rattan blade's grip passes through the rings and is secured there with a heavy wrap of strapping tape. Note the rising bar that protects the base of the thumb and somewhat guards the front of the wrist.

Another edition of the same kind of thing, taken from Anvilfire:

[Konstantin the Red]

This Windrose leather demigaunt kit would be toolable and hardenable; the leather is the right weight for water hardening -- 12oz or rather heavier.
http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index ... air6ill8m4

[Transcendentaltopiary]

I actually worked with an armorer in my sca and made a gorget and cut out and wax boiled the leather for a demi. I don't have the tools or ability to work metals. (I'm highly allergic to nickle and breathing metal dust and it getting in my pores doesn't result in anything possitive) but I'm more than happy to build leather parts and pass them on to my metal armorer to finish up.

This is a big part of why I'm leaning more towards the costuming side of armoring, but some items can be functional full leather pieces so if i can find a way, I'd like to have a go at it.

I think i have a piece of scrap 10+ oz, idk it was in a mixed bag of vegtan scraps. I tried my hand at archery the other day so I'm thinking to use it to make a bracer for my bow arm. Going to tool and oven harden it and hopefully it comes out looking nice and i can post some pics here soon.

[John S.]

Definitely share some pics of your archery bracer when you're ready. Most of us enjoy project pics from folks of all skill levels.

Well made metal armor won't be significantly heavier than well made leather armor, it just yields a different aesthetic and takes a different skill set and set of tools to make. Don't think of your pieces as "lightweight armor for women." Look at medieval art and extant pieces so that you think of your work as producing a certain aesthetic.

Does anyone know what a 9th century Scandinavian archery bracer would look like?

[Transcendentaltopiary]

Will do! It's not number one on my project list atm. Need to finish a journal cover then my kids need holloween costumes. Not having the bracer will force me to pay attention to my stance so i dont end up bruised again lol

No clue what their bracers would look like, I'm still searching for something. Probably going to keep it simple for now. Would love a glove style one but it's definitely not period lol