I know arms and shoulders were pointed early on, but when did legs begin to get pointed to the foundation garment? To support the legs the garment would have to be pretty tight fitting yes? Would it necessarily have to be really tight at the hips? Anybody done this and can give me some pointers, or direct me to a pattern or something? I do mid to late 14th C. If it was done then I want to do it correctly.
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Quid Corone
Pointing armour to foundation garment
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Ned Chaney
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Hi Ned,
There are no extant arming doublets frm this period, unfortunately, and so no one knows *for sure* that the cuisses were actually pointed to the doublet; it just seems likely. I have tried it and learned several very important lessons:
The garment needs to be very snug around the hips, just like a tight-fitting belt. The sleeves need to be set in such a way that when you pick up your arm you don't end up with your cuisses guarding your chest (grin). You *can't* just set metal grommets into the skirt of the doublet; they will rip out the first time you wear it. Using that stitch that looks like a buttonhole is much stronger than a metal grommet (really!), but even that will rip. I am currently experimenting with sewing a leather tab on the inside of my arming doublet and tying the points to that (that's what a friend of mine has done and it worked perfectly).
Since we don't have any 14th-century arming doublets, I chose to have one made from a pattern taken from the Charles de Blois pourpoint. A pattern for that garment can be seen here:
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/blois.html
(NB: this isn't the pattern that was used for mine, so I make no claims about the quality of the instructions on that web site. It does look similar, however.)
It must be remembered, however, that this garment is *not* a military garment. The buttons on the sleeves, for example, would prevent any kind of vambrace from beng worn, just as one example; for another, the points on it are nowhere near firm enough to support cuisses, and are actually placed correctly only for the chausses of this period.
Still, the grand aissette sleeve this garment has is ideal for an arming doublet for the same reason the garment works well for holding up chausses: You can lift your arm or move it in any direction and your cuisses (or chausses) won't move anywhere.
Fitting this garment is a real mess, however. It has to be done *exactly*. I had mine made by a superb seamstress, and still had to take it to Mac's shop to have it re-fit with the assistance of the lady who's sewing for me now. It must fit *prefectly* to work. It should be as tight as you can stand it below the waist, and be snug through the upper body. The fit under the armpits is crucial or else your vambraces won't get the support they require; you'll find that one vambrace will slide to your wrist all the time when you throw a blow. The neck fit seems important too, although by experimentation we found that by properly fitting the garment under the armpits we could actually make the neck opening slightly looser than we originally thought.
I hope this helps.
------------------
Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"
There are no extant arming doublets frm this period, unfortunately, and so no one knows *for sure* that the cuisses were actually pointed to the doublet; it just seems likely. I have tried it and learned several very important lessons:
The garment needs to be very snug around the hips, just like a tight-fitting belt. The sleeves need to be set in such a way that when you pick up your arm you don't end up with your cuisses guarding your chest (grin). You *can't* just set metal grommets into the skirt of the doublet; they will rip out the first time you wear it. Using that stitch that looks like a buttonhole is much stronger than a metal grommet (really!), but even that will rip. I am currently experimenting with sewing a leather tab on the inside of my arming doublet and tying the points to that (that's what a friend of mine has done and it worked perfectly).
Since we don't have any 14th-century arming doublets, I chose to have one made from a pattern taken from the Charles de Blois pourpoint. A pattern for that garment can be seen here:
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/blois.html
(NB: this isn't the pattern that was used for mine, so I make no claims about the quality of the instructions on that web site. It does look similar, however.)
It must be remembered, however, that this garment is *not* a military garment. The buttons on the sleeves, for example, would prevent any kind of vambrace from beng worn, just as one example; for another, the points on it are nowhere near firm enough to support cuisses, and are actually placed correctly only for the chausses of this period.
Still, the grand aissette sleeve this garment has is ideal for an arming doublet for the same reason the garment works well for holding up chausses: You can lift your arm or move it in any direction and your cuisses (or chausses) won't move anywhere.
Fitting this garment is a real mess, however. It has to be done *exactly*. I had mine made by a superb seamstress, and still had to take it to Mac's shop to have it re-fit with the assistance of the lady who's sewing for me now. It must fit *prefectly* to work. It should be as tight as you can stand it below the waist, and be snug through the upper body. The fit under the armpits is crucial or else your vambraces won't get the support they require; you'll find that one vambrace will slide to your wrist all the time when you throw a blow. The neck fit seems important too, although by experimentation we found that by properly fitting the garment under the armpits we could actually make the neck opening slightly looser than we originally thought.
I hope this helps.
------------------
Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"