I decided to use my computer to draw out a pattern for my new axe and it just got out of hand...
[img]http://www.schola-solis.com/hacheplan.jpg[/img]
The blue layers are 1/4" neoprene, and the black in the middle is 1/4" ABS. The middle layer starts at the back of the hammer, passes through a slot in the haft, and stops about halfway through the blade. It provides a rigid foundation for the rubber which is glued with weather-stripping/gasket glue. The trefoil cutout will allow the head to give in the manner of a Rathbone or Mandrake axe.
I'm using a scroll saw to cut all the layers of rubber at the same time so the edges are consistent and square, and cutting (drilling?) the trefoil at the very end.
When I'm done I should have a clean, black head with not a scrap of tape in sight. If I can't find a hitch cover big enough for a mass weapon thrusting tip (do they make them?) I may use black tool dip instead.
Iain
Poleaxe Design
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IainMcClennan
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Gethin
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Ian,
That is a wonderful design. Is this for SCA?
I am curious about the slot in the haft. If this is for the SCA, would this be acceptable? Also, how do you intend to make the slot? My experience with rattan (shaving mostly) would say that this is a difficult process.
I am interested in hearing how you will do this.
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All the best,
Rhys
"Art calls for complete mastery of techniques, developed by reflection within the soul"
Sifu Jun Fan Lee
That is a wonderful design. Is this for SCA?
I am curious about the slot in the haft. If this is for the SCA, would this be acceptable? Also, how do you intend to make the slot? My experience with rattan (shaving mostly) would say that this is a difficult process.
I am interested in hearing how you will do this.
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All the best,
Rhys
"Art calls for complete mastery of techniques, developed by reflection within the soul"
Sifu Jun Fan Lee
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IainMcClennan
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The axe is for SCA as well as other events like the St. George symposium in May.
I've used this design with a couple axes before in leather-
http://www.schola-solis.com/Spar1.jpg
http://www.schola-solis.com/Spar2.jpg .
I drilled a starter hole in the rattan, then cut the slot with a saber saw. I cut it a little small, then filed the ends until the middle piece (hardened leather) would fit through. It was rough, and would work better if I can find a way to square the ends of the slot, since the drill and saw leave them round.
Another important detail about this design is you must put a notch on the front and back sides of the haft where it meets the head so it is flat, not round. I did this by making shallow cuts at the top and bottom, then chiseled into the area between them from the side.
This makes the rattan thinner where the head attaches, but I don't think that is a problem with a poleaxe. The haft doesn't take the kind of abuse a sword does. Adding languets to the sides will also add stability.
Ian
I've used this design with a couple axes before in leather-
http://www.schola-solis.com/Spar1.jpg
http://www.schola-solis.com/Spar2.jpg .
I drilled a starter hole in the rattan, then cut the slot with a saber saw. I cut it a little small, then filed the ends until the middle piece (hardened leather) would fit through. It was rough, and would work better if I can find a way to square the ends of the slot, since the drill and saw leave them round.
Another important detail about this design is you must put a notch on the front and back sides of the haft where it meets the head so it is flat, not round. I did this by making shallow cuts at the top and bottom, then chiseled into the area between them from the side.
This makes the rattan thinner where the head attaches, but I don't think that is a problem with a poleaxe. The haft doesn't take the kind of abuse a sword does. Adding languets to the sides will also add stability.
Ian
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Gethin
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Ian,
First allow my to say "SWEET!"
I believe that I remember hearing about your poleaxes from Brian and Parlan.
I presume that you shave the rattan pole into a squarish shape, judging from the images. Do you "square" the entire pole, or just the lower part?
Please accept my complements.Both are wonderful designs. I am jealous that I came no where near even conceptualizing such an idea.
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All the best,
Rhys
"Art calls for complete mastery of techniques, developed by reflection within the soul"
Sifu Jun Fan Lee
First allow my to say "SWEET!"
I believe that I remember hearing about your poleaxes from Brian and Parlan.
I presume that you shave the rattan pole into a squarish shape, judging from the images. Do you "square" the entire pole, or just the lower part?
Please accept my complements.Both are wonderful designs. I am jealous that I came no where near even conceptualizing such an idea.
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All the best,
Rhys
"Art calls for complete mastery of techniques, developed by reflection within the soul"
Sifu Jun Fan Lee
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SteelWeaver
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IainMcClennan
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IainMcClennan
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IainMcClennan
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[img]http://www.schola-solis.com/hachepattern.jpg[/img]
If you print this out as is, it should be actual size.
When you cut the plastic, leave the back end long so it extends past the end of the hammer. Then once all the pieces are cut out and placed together with the haft, cut it down to match the rubber pieces. That way it all lines up with each other.
Every time I cut on a line from a pattern, I do it a little differently. For this design to look good, the shapes need to be as close to as exactly identical as you can get it. That's why a scroll saw is so useful, you can do a bunch at the same time. When doing this, I try to think of how I can cut along the same part of the pattern as few times as possible. One improvement I will try for the second of the pair is use 1/2" neoprene for the outer layers rather than 2 pieces of 1/4". If I can get it that is.
Languets on my last axes were about 17", I think.
For total length of the axe, I would shoot for something like 5'8" or 5'10". Poleaxes were shorter than the typical SCA glaive, and better suited to a style of single combat that uses both ends aggressively.
Iain
[This message has been edited by IainMcClennan (edited 03-23-2001).]
If you print this out as is, it should be actual size.
When you cut the plastic, leave the back end long so it extends past the end of the hammer. Then once all the pieces are cut out and placed together with the haft, cut it down to match the rubber pieces. That way it all lines up with each other.
Every time I cut on a line from a pattern, I do it a little differently. For this design to look good, the shapes need to be as close to as exactly identical as you can get it. That's why a scroll saw is so useful, you can do a bunch at the same time. When doing this, I try to think of how I can cut along the same part of the pattern as few times as possible. One improvement I will try for the second of the pair is use 1/2" neoprene for the outer layers rather than 2 pieces of 1/4". If I can get it that is.
Languets on my last axes were about 17", I think.
For total length of the axe, I would shoot for something like 5'8" or 5'10". Poleaxes were shorter than the typical SCA glaive, and better suited to a style of single combat that uses both ends aggressively.
Iain
[This message has been edited by IainMcClennan (edited 03-23-2001).]
Perhaps a palm carver could be used to sqaure up the ends of the slot. They come with all different size/shape blades. A very thin chisel would work to I bet, but I think that palm carvers would be easier to find with small enough blades.
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Newbie TrooperBill is finally working on an SCA name...
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Newbie TrooperBill is finally working on an SCA name...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IainMcClennan:
<B>
When you cut the plastic, leave the back end long so it extends past the end of the hammer. Then once all the pieces are cut out and placed together with the haft, cut it down to match the rubber pieces. That way it all lines up with each other.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
With the ABS extending all the way to the back, the butt end of the head cannot be used to hit with. Were they used historically? If so, shouldn't the ABS be shortened (and the trimmed part replaced with foam) so it would be a legal striking surface?
Also, on the front of the head, I can see that a hit on the center will collapse the foam and still deliver force from the center chunk of the head. Will strikes with the top & bottom of the head deliver enough force, or will the foam just fold in?
This is a very nice looking design. I have been meaning to make some new polaxes but I want to make sure they will deliver a good enough blow.
- Scott
<B>
When you cut the plastic, leave the back end long so it extends past the end of the hammer. Then once all the pieces are cut out and placed together with the haft, cut it down to match the rubber pieces. That way it all lines up with each other.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
With the ABS extending all the way to the back, the butt end of the head cannot be used to hit with. Were they used historically? If so, shouldn't the ABS be shortened (and the trimmed part replaced with foam) so it would be a legal striking surface?
Also, on the front of the head, I can see that a hit on the center will collapse the foam and still deliver force from the center chunk of the head. Will strikes with the top & bottom of the head deliver enough force, or will the foam just fold in?
This is a very nice looking design. I have been meaning to make some new polaxes but I want to make sure they will deliver a good enough blow.
- Scott
What's the rule in SCA for length of cutting edge on a polearm? is 8 3/8" enough?
As someone who, back when the fish were adapting to land and I didn't have anything better to do, used to fight with boffers, I would suggest that as is the pattern isn't going to put up with much punishment. I don't know of a failsafe glue you could use.
What I'd suggest is that you run a stitch line with heavy string about 3/4" in from the blade edge to keep it from separating, and then attach a single strip of neoprene perpendicular to the blade edge as the striking surface. That should add a bunch of life to it.
HELMUT
As someone who, back when the fish were adapting to land and I didn't have anything better to do, used to fight with boffers, I would suggest that as is the pattern isn't going to put up with much punishment. I don't know of a failsafe glue you could use.
What I'd suggest is that you run a stitch line with heavy string about 3/4" in from the blade edge to keep it from separating, and then attach a single strip of neoprene perpendicular to the blade edge as the striking surface. That should add a bunch of life to it.
HELMUT
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IainMcClennan
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">With the ABS extending all the way to the back, the butt end of the head cannot be used to hit with. Were they used historically? If so, shouldn't the ABS be shortened (and the trimmed part replaced with foam) so it would be a legal striking surface?
Also, on the front of the head, I can see that a hit on the center will collapse the foam and still deliver force from the center chunk of the head. Will strikes with the top & bottom of the head deliver enough force, or will the foam just fold in?
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The neoprene is solid rubber, not foam, so it won't compress all the way back to the plastic. The middle of the blade will bend into the trefoil, and the ends should fold back. It's supposed to work the same way a Rathbone axe does, though I'm not sure the cutout is big enough to provide enough give. I'm not sure how much bigger I can scale the trefoil without making the head too weak.
The hammer in this case isn't legal to strike with (I only ever hook, anyway) but you could stop the plastic just beyond the haft and make a rectangular cutout, like the Keystone axe heads.
As for holding up to abuse, one thing I'm doing to make it stronger is use 2 layers of 1/2" rubber on the outsides with 1layer of 1/4" to fill in the center past where the plastic stops. The gasket glue seems to hold very strongly when evenly spread over the whole surface. I've been playing with coating the striking surface with glue as well. It dries as a layer of rubber which fills in the cracks and makes an even surface to discourage the layers from peeling apart. I hope it's not necessary, because it's not as smooth and neat as the neoprene by itself.
Iain
Also, on the front of the head, I can see that a hit on the center will collapse the foam and still deliver force from the center chunk of the head. Will strikes with the top & bottom of the head deliver enough force, or will the foam just fold in?
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The neoprene is solid rubber, not foam, so it won't compress all the way back to the plastic. The middle of the blade will bend into the trefoil, and the ends should fold back. It's supposed to work the same way a Rathbone axe does, though I'm not sure the cutout is big enough to provide enough give. I'm not sure how much bigger I can scale the trefoil without making the head too weak.
The hammer in this case isn't legal to strike with (I only ever hook, anyway) but you could stop the plastic just beyond the haft and make a rectangular cutout, like the Keystone axe heads.
As for holding up to abuse, one thing I'm doing to make it stronger is use 2 layers of 1/2" rubber on the outsides with 1layer of 1/4" to fill in the center past where the plastic stops. The gasket glue seems to hold very strongly when evenly spread over the whole surface. I've been playing with coating the striking surface with glue as well. It dries as a layer of rubber which fills in the cracks and makes an even surface to discourage the layers from peeling apart. I hope it's not necessary, because it's not as smooth and neat as the neoprene by itself.
Iain
Iain,
So, how are these holding up?
Time permitting, I may try to build a couple this weekend.
I do have a question about your measured drawing. You give a dimension of 8" across, but you also have it broken down into 2 3/8 hammer, 1 1/4 haft, 3 1/4 axe, which adds up to 6 7/8". I was just wondering which measurement is in error, the 8" or one or more of the others.
Thanks,
- Scott
So, how are these holding up?
Time permitting, I may try to build a couple this weekend.
I do have a question about your measured drawing. You give a dimension of 8" across, but you also have it broken down into 2 3/8 hammer, 1 1/4 haft, 3 1/4 axe, which adds up to 6 7/8". I was just wondering which measurement is in error, the 8" or one or more of the others.
Thanks,
- Scott
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IainMcClennan
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The 8" dimension is wrong, I think it was supposed to be more like 7. I haven't finished one of these yet, I've had trouble getting glue to hold. The smooth plastic didn't bond well with the rubber. I was able to get a fingernail between the layers and pull them apart. Rather than rubber glue, I would try something like Goop and seriously rough up both the plastic and the rubber with a wire wheel. Also if you coat the outside edges with glue, you'll create a continuous outer surface that should help keep the layers from peeling apart.
The more I play with this, the more it seems like the best way to go is molded rubber like the Rathbone and Mandrake heads. Unfortunately it costs something like $3000 to mold and prototype one of those. Maybe Roderick could be persuaded to offer a poleaxe head. Enough people have been buying his axes and adding hooks to them.
Iain
The more I play with this, the more it seems like the best way to go is molded rubber like the Rathbone and Mandrake heads. Unfortunately it costs something like $3000 to mold and prototype one of those. Maybe Roderick could be persuaded to offer a poleaxe head. Enough people have been buying his axes and adding hooks to them.
Iain
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Dragon
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Have you considered substituting 1/2" solid rubber(ie: heavy truck mudflap)? For the solid rubber, I'd suggest rubber tube patching compound, available at just about any auto parts store.
Also, what do you use for the languets?
If I remember, tomorrow I'll cut this pattern out of the rubber and let you know what the weight is. I can forsee it being heavier than your neoprene version, but not much heavier than a Rathbone.
I want to thank you for sharing your pattern.
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1/4" wood chisels are available, just not necessarily easy to find. I'd just use an old steel file that has files on the edges to clean up the interior slot corners.
[This message has been edited by Dragon (edited 05-15-2001).]
Also, what do you use for the languets?
If I remember, tomorrow I'll cut this pattern out of the rubber and let you know what the weight is. I can forsee it being heavier than your neoprene version, but not much heavier than a Rathbone.
I want to thank you for sharing your pattern.
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1/4" wood chisels are available, just not necessarily easy to find. I'd just use an old steel file that has files on the edges to clean up the interior slot corners.
[This message has been edited by Dragon (edited 05-15-2001).]
I can't find neoprene rubber here in the wasteland of Las Vegas. Everyone's too busy sitting on their asses in front of slot and video poker machines to try to make anything or have a hobby... so you can't find the cool stuff here. 
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Michael AKA Nomad
Barony of Starkhafn, Caid
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Michael AKA Nomad
Barony of Starkhafn, Caid