Sleeve of Saint Martin

Tracy Justus · Post by **Tracy Justus** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:19 pm

ThereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s an article in a French conservation journal, CORÃƒâ€°, about the conservation of the sleeve of Saint Martin. This is a relic in the church of the small village of Bussy-Saint-Martin. The sleeve is dated to 1160-1270 and is quilted of six thicknesses of fabric at the armhole tapering down to a single thickness under the hand. (This is according to the conservator, who mentions it in discussing the coat of Charles VI.) According to the village website the sleeve ends in a glove.

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m interested in locating a copy of the CORÃƒâ€° article. The citation: I. BÃƒÂ©dat and C. Piel Ã¢â‚¬ËœLa Manche de saint Martin ÃƒÂ Bussy-Saint-Martin (Seine-et-Marne)Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ CORÃƒâ€° 2, March 1997 p 38-43. It is unlikely to be available in any library or institution I have access to. CORÃƒâ€° has a web site but the link to search earlier editions is broken. Can any of the Archivers who have access to libraries that might subscribe to this journal help me? I can translate the French if I can get a copy of the article.

Thanks, Clare

Caithlinn · Post by **Caithlinn** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:42 pm

Hi Tracy,

You can access the other journal editions here (but not the article itself, unfortunately.....): http://www.sfiic.asso.fr/core/ (It's the index.....)

If I was at home (as in where I grew up...) I could get you the article asap since my library has it.....

However, if you can ILL (in case nobody else is able to get you a copy), the Getty Research Library in LA has it. Their website is: http://library.getty.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... PAGE=First
and this is the location/call no for it there:
Library Location: L2 : PERIODICALS
Call Number: N8554 .C67

Hope this helps a bit....

Caithlinn

Tracy Justus · Post by **Tracy Justus** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:52 pm

Thanks, Caithlinn. The Getty Research Library is non-circulating so I can't ILL the journal, and I'm on the other side of the country. :sad:

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

Clare

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:29 pm

do you have an issn #? I happen to be a student at the university of georgia, and i can, should i get the time, take a look for you.

-+G

Hushgirl · Post by **Hushgirl** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:56 pm

I'd like to see a picture of that.

Caithlinn · Post by **Caithlinn** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:00 pm

Hi,

The ISSN of CorÃƒÂ© is: 1277-2550, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere else in the US than Getty. I will ask my brother if he can get the article for me from Heidelberg, but it may take a little time..... I will also try to get an electronic version, but that will also take a little while....

Let me know if you want me to chase it up for you, Tracy....

Cheers,

Caithlinn

Tracy Justus · Post by **Tracy Justus** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:35 pm

Because the journal is specialized (conservation and restoration of French artifacts) and completely in French I doubt it is likely to be in a general US collection. It might be in a few institutions that have large art conservation departments, like the Met and Winterthur.

If you can find it through your European connections, Caithlinn, I'd be appreciative!

Thanks, Clare

Hushgirl, since there's apparently a glove attached I have to wonder if the sleeve is from a garment like this one from the Maciejowski Bible.

Hushgirl · Post by **Hushgirl** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:39 am

That was the picture in my head. Wouldn't it be cool to see a real one?

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:53 am

With journal articles ILL usually involves a photocopy rather than actually circulating the issue. Tracy, do you know your ILL librarian? This might be a good time to establish a relationship.

OCLC WorldCat says:

Title: Conservation et restauration du patrimoine culturel :
Alternative title: CORE
Publisher: Editions Errance, Paris : 1996-
Topic: Art, Art
ISSN: 1277-2550
Worldcat: WL2 - WALTERS ART MUSEUM
ZYU - NEW YORK UNIV
H34 - NEW YORK UNIV, IFA, CONSERVATION CTR
AVA - NATIONAL ART LIBR VICTORIA & ALBERT MUS

Good luck!

BdeB · Post by **BdeB** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:14 am

Tracy,

(First off, thanks for remembering to look into this again...)

Contact Nia (Stephnie Rodgers). She is a research librarian at NCSU and might have a way to get a copy of it. She is really, really good about finding obscure stuff too...

Saint-Sever · Post by **Saint-Sever** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:26 am

Tracy Justus wrote:Because the journal is specialized (conservation and restoration of French artifacts) and completely in French I doubt it is likely to be in a general US collection. It might be in a few institutions that have large art conservation departments, like the Met and Winterthur.

If you can find it through your European connections, Caithlinn, I'd be appreciative!

Thanks, Clare

Hushgirl, since there's apparently a glove attached I have to wonder if the sleeve is from a garment like this one from the Maciejowski Bible.

That's damn' interesting. With the idea now in my head that the sleeves on this type of military garment would be separate items, this miniature has a completely different meaning to me-- I had always assumed that like a hauberk, the aketon underneath would also be a one-piece garment.

Assuming that such an aketon is made of at least 3 parts (torso and 2 sleeves), I wonder how far inside the torso the sleeves extend? Are they pointed to an undertunic or doublet, or attached to the torso part?

Damn. Now I'm in a heat to see this, too.

Michael,

...who is now very interested in this period's armor, because he's slowly switching over to it, and wants it to be Right

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:32 pm

If anyone actually finds a picture of this, please scan and post!!! Thanks.

Raymund · Post by **Raymund** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:54 pm

Historia Vivens has an rather interesting version of the maciejowski-gambeson at: http://www.historiavivens1300.at/realien/gambes.htm

/R

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Tue May 04, 2004 1:13 am

Bump...

Tracy Justus · Post by **Tracy Justus** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:40 am

I'm in correspondance with a gentleman in France who has the article, however he's been on vacation until this week. I may have some more information later this week- will keep ya'll posted.

Clare

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:15 pm

Any luck? Thanks!

sersem · Post by **sersem** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:11 am

Tracy Justus, so what? Are there any results of your corrspondance?

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:12 am

Maelgwyn wrote:With journal articles ILL usually involves a photocopy rather than actually circulating the issue. Tracy, do you know your ILL librarian? This might be a good time to establish a relationship.

Sometimes they will scan it, put in on their computer, and email you the link. I posted one of those a few months ago...