pattern help please

belmtho · Post by **belmtho** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:57 pm

hey guys i have made the gorget from the pattern acrhives this one
http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/gorget_ab/
i was wondering if anyone knows how it is keep closed it looks like it is riveted together although that would mean you couldn't get it off or peening the rivets, so the i figured that it must be spring pins although in the pictures it doesn't look like it. then thinking some more and nearly passing out with the starin i thoughted it could be slotted sliding rivets with hole that look like this 0-- but in the pictures it does'nt look like it either!
please help me !!!
cheers
guy in advance
tom

ArtemisGreen · Post by **ArtemisGreen** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:05 pm

Looks to me as though it's riveted on both sides, and you can slide it over your head....

I guess if you wanted to, you could make one side hinged, and on the other, and add turning pins on the other side (like the ones seen here )

Make a posterboard mock-up of it first, then see if it'll fit over your head. If not, use your imagination!

~Arty

Justin Andrews · Post by **Justin Andrews** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:19 pm

If you look carefully, you will see both ends of one section are out side the ends of the other section. As the edges of the Gorget are lipped it will have quite a bit of strength and natural 'springiness' Its that springiness that keeps the piece together.
Some breastplates work on a similar principle I believe.

Juz

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:16 pm

I have built that very same gorget.

i think that it's just a couple posts, and held in place with it's own springyness, just like justin said.
if you want to go that rout, i use framing nails to make pins, just cut off the top head, and cut the point to length.

on my gorget i just put a buckle on either side of it. much simpler

JPT · Post by **JPT** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:21 pm

It's what's commonly called a spring pin gorget. It's exactly as you were told by another poster, there are holes and then rivets set in the other piece fit through the holes and spring tension holds it in place. It's dead simple to make and very very comfortable.

Angus Bjornssen · Post by **Angus Bjornssen** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:41 pm

yep, spring tension. the catch is that, assuming the back plate is the one with the pins, the whole front is the spring. just mount the pins to the rear plate, then put the holes in and shape the front so that it slips just inside the rear on both sides. to put it on all you do is put one side over a pin then expand the front just wide enough to fit over the other pin and let it spring back into normal shape. works wonderfully.

Mind you it can be done with the pins on the front plate while using the back plate as the spring if you like. personal preference determines it as far as I know. mine has the pins on the back plate.

Angus

AB Hammer · Post by **AB Hammer** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:56 pm

You can do it a couple of ways.

The pins, or you can put a hinge on one side and a strap on the other.
over all just make sure the connectors are where you want them.

One of many patterns

AB Hammer

belmtho · Post by **belmtho** » Wed May 12, 2004 3:43 am

wicked cheers
guys i think i go with the whole of the frount as the spring idea.
cheers again guys
tom

JPT · Post by **JPT** » Wed May 12, 2004 8:20 am

I generally put the pins on the back piece and the holes on the front. You will want the holes to be a bit larger around than the pins in the back otherwise fitting it becomes a bit trickier.

One other thing, you want the pins pointing outward. Having the pins pointing inward would be bad. I saw someone do that once.

Hew · Post by **Hew** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:01 pm

Glad I found this thread (almost a year later), since I'm in the middle of making a gorget using that same pattern. I see now how the flaring contributes to the stiffness. I'm just about ready to punch the holes, but there's one thing I haven't figured out yet.

How do you keep the catch pins in place? ie. How do you keep the rivet from simply falling out? It doesn't look like one of those "pushbutton" catches, with a flat spring strip pushing against the rivet head.

I tried a short steel tube (a cut-off "roll pin", aka "spring pin" or "split pin" - http://www.engineersedge.com/roll_pin.htm ) on the outside, and peening the end of the shank (cut-down shingle nail) over the end of the tube, so that the plate is sandwiched between the rivet head and the bottom end of the tube. My first experiment on a scrap piece was a partial success, but I ended up with the shank bent over at an angle so it was not a snug fit. Next time I'll try a shorter tube (say, 1/8" long instead of 1/4") and take my time peening.

As I was browsing around the hardware store, I came across a display of pop-rivets, and I thought they would do exactly what I wanted - flat head on the inside, with a post on the outside - but that seemed a bit too modern a solution, if you get my drift.

Is it possible that if the hole is punched as small as possible, that you just bash the end of shank down until the diameter (of the shank) near the plate expands to a larger diameter than the hole? (sort of like a pop rivet) It might work for a while, but I'd think it would eventually loosen up.

What's the secret? I've seen references to a "stepped rivet", but I don't see how that helps. (No pictures) Do stepped rivets not have a head? If no head, then do you punch the hole to fit the skinny end, and then peen the skinny end on the inside of the plate?

One other thing about that pattern - the back half plate has one hole on each side, but the front half has two holes. What are the extra pair of holes for? Is it to allow for two different positions (eg. for two sizes of neck)? If it was meant for a pushbutton style catch, I would expect to see three and two pairs of holes.