Bad Armourer Alert - Gundo/Wise Ogre/Anthony Stanbarger :(

Gabriel Morgan · Post by **Gabriel Morgan** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:37 pm

It's with some amount of regret that I write this, but even though Gundo has told me in private email that he plans to end his commercial armouring days, this should be where people can see/search for it. If people had posted about the problems they were having last year with Gundo, I would not be in the predicament I am now.

I commissioned a full "Milanese Export" harness in spring steel from Gundo in December. He was paid in full; the down payment had been made prior to that, as I had purchased my slot in his queue from another person, and due to his recent layoff and switch to fulltime armouring I knew he needed the cash. Note that the money came from my wife, who gave me a wonderful birthday/Christmas gift... what a gal.

The arrangement didn't start off well, but the deal was so good I tried not to mind. Despite saying on his now-defunct webpage (which I had the foresight to save to my computer, thankfully) that "Each slot is slated for a definite completion date, which will be determined by the size of the orders received. Completion dates will be confirmed on receipt of the down payment.", I was never able to get a specific date of completion from him, try as I might. Late spring/early summer was the best I got. This didn't exactly sit well, but he seemed like a nice guy, so I let it slide.

Late Spring came and went. So did early summer. No armour. No communication, either, unless I started it, and then it was terse one-line emails that often did not answer all of my questions. I knew from the Archive that he had recently moved, so I was willing to give him a little leeway. I had an event in August that I needed the armour for, so I told him that all was well, but could we please get it done by August 21st? In all likelihood was my reply.

Note that his webpage said in large bright-red lettering, "If I miss your shipment date, I will rebate 10% of the price of the order. This will be deducted from the balance due where applicable." I certainly did not receive any refund.

Early August. I email to confirm that the harness will be done by the 21st. Nope, it hasn't even been started yet, but it is "just about to be". Now I'm a little worried. I ask when I can expect it, and he says it is probable that it will be done by the end of the month. I also ask him on behalf of a friend if he is still taking commissions, and he says that he is getting out of commercial armouring. Uh-oh. I even offer him a 200 dollar bonus to complete the harness by Sept 10th, but I get no reply.

Now fearing I will never get my armour, I ask him if I can list the spot on the Archive, and after the second email he agrees. As soon as I list the spot, I get a couple emails with similar horror stories, and I have since pulled the offer.

Since my commission has not even been started and I fear ever getting my armour, I am now asking for a refund of our money. Gundo has not responded. I have said I will give up my 200 dollar down payment and not pursue the 10% refund I am due if he will simply return my 1800 dollars. I have said I will work with Gundo, as 1800 is a big chunk of change. I am not hopeful. My next step is to file a report with the FTC, contact the District Attorney in his area, and contact a lawyer. I've had conversations with a campus lawyer already, who has already confirmed that Gundo has broken a number of FTC regulations/laws.

Ideally, this will serve as a wakeup call to Gundo, we will get our money back, and we will go our separate ways. If that doesn't happen, maybe this post will serve to warn people about being careful in such dealings. I thought I was safe Ã¢â‚¬â€œ this was the guy who ran the bad armourer list for GodÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s sake! By all reports, Gundo is a nice guy. All I know is, my wife is out $1800, I'm out $200, I have no armour, and there's nothing but headaches in the future.

Wil · Post by **Wil** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:50 pm

I'm very surprised to hear this, Andrew (Gundo) has done business for years and always been very critical of flaky armourers.

Have you tried phoning him? I had an armourer trying to give me the run-around about a year ago, so I called him at home- we had everything sort out in two weeks. Emails are very easy to ignore or brush off, but when that phone rings a person suddenly becomes much more 'real', if that makes sense.

Best of luck with this, both to you and Andrew.

~Wil

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:23 pm

Wil, I'm not. I'm sorry I couldn't give Gabriel some good advice. I gave Gundo $90 down on a pair of gauntlets back in February of 2001. Needless to say he's never delivered.

I've since learned to make my own, but it irks me.

Jareth · Post by **Jareth** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:35 pm

I made a $1000 downpayment to Gundo in August, 2000.

I want very much to believe that Gundo will eventually complete his comissions. But at this point it would be a pleasant surprise rather than fulfillment of an expectation.

And to be honest, right now I just feel like a chump for waiting 4+ years and having nothing to show for it, no proposed delivery date and my requests for a refund ignored.

Gabriel Morgan · Post by **Gabriel Morgan** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:20 pm

Wil wrote:I'm very surprised to hear this, Andrew (Gundo) has done business for years and always been very critical of flaky armourers.

Have you tried phoning him? I had an armourer trying to give me the run-around about a year ago, so I called him at home- we had everything sort out in two weeks.

Andrew has since moved and not bothered to provide me with a new phone number or address. If anyone would be kind enough to provide me with the information over PM or email, I'd be glad to try that route.

I am always careful to copy everything in email to a PM here, however, and I am certain he has read everything. I'm afraid that this situation is going to get very 'real' for him if he doesn't make arrangements with me to resolve the situation - and I am giving him every opportunity to do so.

If there are others out there who feel they have been defrauded by Andrew - and that's really what we are talking about here - I highly suggest filing an online complaint with the FTC on Monday. A barrage of complaints is more likely to draw immediate action. I will post the URL soon.

Brien L. · Post by **Brien L.** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:13 pm

I paid $120 for some armor late last year. I've been trying to contact him for a while now. Sorry to find out I'm not alone.

-Brien

WaaaghBoss · Post by **WaaaghBoss** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:41 am

Well I am "next" in his queue. I have been "next" since August of 2002 when I purchased a comission from another AA member for $1000.

I was given completion dates of September/October 2002. I went down there for a hammer in at Gundo's. Had a lot of fun. Andrew was a great guy. At this point if I ever see the armour I will certainly be suprised.

~Kevin

PS- post the link and I will be there.

Lucian Ro · Post by **Lucian Ro** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:38 pm

This will be of no help to anyone whatsoever, but ..... wow. I can honestly say I never would have thought Gundo to be one of 'those' types of armourers.

Good luck in your endeavors, folks ...

Gabriel Morgan · Post by **Gabriel Morgan** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:41 pm

Just a short update.

I've sent one last PM/email to Andrew asking him to contact his customers and try to work this out outside of the courts.

If I haven't heard back from him by 3 pm Central tomorrow, I will post the link to the FTC online complaint form and complete one myself.

The next steps are to contact the local District Attorney and makes inquiries. I also plan to schedule a meeting with an attorney and ask about the situation in general, including the feasibility of a class-action lawsuit. I've already been informed by an attorney that every defrauded party is entitled to sue for twice the amount paid plus legal expenses, triple if an intent to defraud can be established. Any damages awarded this way are not eligible for bankruptcy protection. They will get paid, one way or another.

I really hope Andrew gets in touch with people. This is going to be a big headache for everyone if he does not.

Samuel · Post by **Samuel** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:51 pm

FYI.

having won a few civil cases in constuction ( aka did the work and did it well but never got paid) the BEST case senario is you get a lien on the property they own.. if they dont own anything you will propbably never see a dime..

Gabriel Morgan · Post by **Gabriel Morgan** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:00 pm

Samuel wrote:FYI.

having won a few civil cases in constuction ( aka did the work and did it well but never got paid) the BEST case senario is you get a lien on the property they own.. if they dont own anything you will propbably never see a dime..

Garnishing wages is also an option. I don't have high hopes, to be honest, but I'll meet with an attorney and discuss the situation. I'll do what I can, report the fraud to the authorities, make certain the word gets out, and that's that.

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:02 am

I certainly never wanted to be one of those armorers.

I also never intended to defraud anyone, or even be late.

My life went to hell in alot of ways. Lost an inch off my right middle finger, for example. I've also got occasionally severe arthritis that seems to have been induced by the amputation. That's just the physical part.

I'll eventually either repay everyone who ordered armor from me, or actually make the armor.

Contrary to the lead post, I have replied.

Gabriel Morgan · Post by **Gabriel Morgan** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:31 am

Andrew has offered to pay me back the money he owes us slowly, and in installments, and that is fine. I want to thank Andrew personally, and in public, for doing this. He could have cut and run, or tried to duck this, and he did not.

Thank you.

Jareth · Post by **Jareth** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:37 am

Gundo,

If you keep me informed as to your progress, I'd be happy to work something out with you.

I've always admired your work and I'd *prefer* armor rather than a return of my money. But I can't wait indefinitely. I need solid dates and I need a plan for how we're going to proceed if those dates can not be met.

I'd be willing to wait as long as one more year, maximum. If you feel that it will be longer then that, then we should probably arrange for a repayment schedule instead.

Good luck, and please let me know what you decide.

(Posted and PM'd)

- Jareth

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:57 pm

I'm in the same boat - been waiting since August 2000, $700 sent.

Gundo - last heard from you on 08/27, have not gotten a reply on my PM message sent that same day. Please contact me.

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:58 pm

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:10 pm

Sorry, I don't look at this board every day.

Hal, I have you in the refund category. I don't have any armor in stock or a collection of weapons.

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:23 pm

Thanks for getting back to me.

My condolences for your life-troubles and I'm sorry we couldn't complete the original armor transaction or come up with a value exchange.

Drop me an email or PM and let me know what being in the "refund category" entails - I have mortgage bankers and cat food suppliers breathing down my neck

Jareth · Post by **Jareth** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:15 am

*Bump*

Hey, Gundo.

I'm very sorry if I was unclear in my last post. When I said that I can't wait indefinitely, what I *meant* was...I can't wait indefinitely.

You said you needed a few days and I'm willing to work with you...but it's been a week with no contact. Could you please contact me and let me know what your decision is, regarding the comission? Thanks,

- Jareth

(Posted and PM'ed)

Jareth · Post by **Jareth** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:15 pm

Gundo has contacted me privately and we have come to an agreement. Thanks, Gundo!

- Jareth

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:50 pm

I still have not heard anything from Gundobad.

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:26 pm

WaaaghBoss · Post by **WaaaghBoss** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:59 am

I still haven't heard anything back from Gundo either.

2K and two years later...

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:12 pm

one more

as I have not heard from Gundo.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:03 pm

Gundo gave me a microwave once. For that I'm forever in his debt.

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:18 pm

Has anyone recently heard from Gundobad and/or received any payment refunds?

Jareth · Post by **Jareth** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:55 pm

Gundo has mentioned that he doesn't read this board (the classified ads) very often; Have you tried sending a private message?

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:25 pm

PM sent - one would expect that he'd be utilizing the mail alerts in order to follow this thread with his name in the title.

He does seem to be quite active on the Political topics board.

Gabriel Morgan · Post by **Gabriel Morgan** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:04 pm

He is supposed to be sending along my first payment and a signed agreement today (I am sending him one as well). As soon as I receive it, I'll post.

Gabriel Morgan · Post by **Gabriel Morgan** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:58 pm

Gundo has just given me tracking info for his first repayment check to us. At this point, things seem to be working out on our end. Unless things turn south, I'm happy, and won't be posting anymore about this.

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:19 pm

Broadway wrote:Gundo gave me a microwave once. For that I'm forever in his debt.

For a microwave oven? I'd understand if he'd saved your life, but man... can I send you a microwave oven too?

JP

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:39 am

I'd understand if he'd saved your life, but man...

You just don't know how many times that microwave has saved me from certain starvation...

can I send you a microwave oven too?

I already got one... (he said he already got one... hehehehe)

Bad Armourer Alert - Gundo/Wise Ogre/Anthony Stanbarger :(

Bad Armourer Alert - Gundo/Wise Ogre/Anthony Stanbarger :(

Wow

Update