For those who wanted to see my Latex sparring swords/boffers

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:05 pm

I hesitate to use the word boffer as it evokes images in people that I do not want associated with my swords.

Technically this is the Apex of what I can do now. There are still some kinks to iron out in the production process but I am pretty content. They are in essence the same as the ones you have seen before only I have refined the technique.

These weapons are all weightet and have an oval diameter grip to more closely resmble the look and especially feel of a real weapon. I have tried for a realistic and believable weapon when I designed these, not a monster fantasy creation. They taper to about 1.5 inches at the top. The fuller/groove runs two thirds of the blade. Here in Germany these count as toys and are freely distributable.

Feedback and comments appreciated.

Best Regards

Sebastian

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:23 pm

Very cool, Sebastian.

How much do they weigh?

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:45 pm

Ditto: weight, balance... how do they feel in the hand, and what does the material feel like? Does it bounce? Flex? Slide?

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:57 pm

Total weight is somewhere near 2 pounds depending on the weapon. I can put more weight in the handle but I usually do not do this with stock items such as these. The balance is about an inch forward of the parry, again depending on which one you look at.

The material is Latex covered Closed cell foam (not camping mat) with a pultruded fiberglass core.. The Latex is tinted with metal pigments. On top of the latex goes a highly flexible liquid Polyurethane as a sealant.

They bounce somewhat and slide nicely off each other if you keep em right (powder and spray them regularly with talcum and silicone). On egroup I know uses them for their beginners training, another for their Talhoffer training. I have sold one as a wall hanger to a serviceman who was not allowed to keep a steel weapon on post. They are not meant for brutal hard edge to edge combat, they are like the Del Tins are to Wasters they are to normal boffers.

Freimann has handled the second sword in the forst picture, so he may be able to give you a better and unbiased opinion on the handling than I can.

Regards

Sebastian

Elias mac Griogair · Post by **Elias mac Griogair** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:22 pm

from the one that I handled a few years back they are very nice.

hope things are going well for you in Koln

Elias

freiman the minstrel · Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:40 am

I have one of Sebastian's Weapons. I have never had a boffer weapon before, but I knew I had to have one of these. Mine is a long one hander with a grippable pommel, so I guess you might call it a "Bastard Sword". It's amazing. It works just fine for extended use against metal armor. I attended a "Beginner's LARP" with Sebastian about two weeks ago, and I don't recall having that much fun ever. It was suggested that I wear my SCA armor. Not a single foam weapon showed any damage from the extended whacking on it. They are pretty durable. I imagine that they would break down faster than rattan once they started to show wear, but they reach that point much slower. I can't imagine fighting an entire fighter practice with a rattan weapon and not having a single nick on the tape at the end.

The sword I bought weighs more than one of my two rattan swords, less than the other. I think it would weigh a little more than both if it were equipped with a metal basket hilt, like they (the rattan) both are. It weighs less than the steel rebated sword from Prague I have.

It is possible to hit too hard against unarmored people. By too hard, I mean that the target gets the immediate idea that long practice sessions are right out. There is a little bit of waster bounce, but less than rattan. We are trying to get some I-33 sessions here, and I am going to reccomend them for that. I have not shown them to my Karate Teacher (I don't attend practice regularly) yet, but I will, because I think that this is a quantum leap from the hard rubber knives that we used to use for practice. I don't imagine that you could kill sombody with them, but you could sure make them wish they were dead.

The really cool thing about these boffers is that Sebastian can make them in any shape you want. While I was there I saw strictly period appearing swords, knives and daggers, as well as some really, really cool Frazetta-ish fantasy weapons like hammers, axes, and "left handed can openers". One "sting" replica was particularly nice. Sebastian hates to make anything that doesn't have a historical precedence, but he can, and if somebody insists, he will. He also makes joke weapons like combat cucumbers and boffer wooden stakes for boffer vampires.

The one thing that was missing was weapons equipped for thrusting. The LARP rules for the game that Sebastian plays (he also plays SCA and some other things) don't allow for thrusting, which colors the combat considerably. Also, there are no magic spells. I had thought that magic spells would automatically be a part of a LARP.

I like mine, except that my wife has been known to whack me with it. She really likes to do that. Dosen't she know you could put an eye out with that thing?

freiman

Sir Victor · Post by **Sir Victor** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:57 am

Sebastian, these are gorguous!! Have you ever tried building them with a rattan core?

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:44 am

Okay.

I want one.

...or two...

Adriano · Post by **Adriano** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:09 am

Nice! They look a hell of a lot more "real" than the sticks of rattan we use in the SCA. Could he do polearm blades? Imagine the main Field Battle at Pennsic, with everybody using such realistic-looking weapons...

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:29 am

Interesting. I like that they hurt -- training tools should at least smart a little when you get whacked, or else you wind up with a weird kind of pillowfighting.

Sebastian, I am out of the market for the fall, but just by way of questions, what would you do if somebody wanted the balance further away towards the point of the weapon?

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:49 pm

Sir Victor,

I am working on it, but it is hard. SCA weapons need to pass the most anal inspection and regulation process, development is expensive as in this form I do not think they are able to take the punishment. Plus those requirements for the size dimaensions.... sigh

Maybe a bigger core and harder foam, and maybe Neopren instead of Latex.... I am trying, trying to find a way to make good looking SCA weapons.

Josh,

let me know what you need

Adriano,

I have done Polearms, just not SCA legal ones... yet

Russ,

depends. If you wanted the POB somewhere else i could put less weight into the grip. Ã‚Â´That would mean it would be lighter. I you wanted to maintain the weight I would have to see about lining a hollow core with lead, but It woul definetely be doable. Depends on what you want.

Best Regards (more pictures to come)

Sebastian

Richard Blackmoore · Post by **Richard Blackmoore** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:11 pm

These look really nice. Are they available for purchase in the US?

Richard Blackmoore

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:39 am

Yes they are. I am still looking for a cheaper carrier, but any sword under 120cm will still be shippable at a fairly decent price.

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:07 am

Sebastian,
How much would a Talhoffer style longsword cost? I'm stationed in Germany so shipping is no problem. I'd be interested in a matched pair, depending on price and my wife's genorosity ;-)

Hugo de Stonham · Post by **Hugo de Stonham** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:10 am

I would love to have a price list, including shipping to the US.

Grendal

Sir Victor · Post by **Sir Victor** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:03 am

Sebastian,

if you need different sizes of Rattan, you could try here...

http://www.franksupply.com/bamboo.html#rattanpoles

I don't know what the shipping would be to you, though.

-Vic

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:59 am

Sebastion,

We have a rattan supplier down here near Lichtenfels who has a wide range of sizes and is very cheap. He is just a bit JWD.

Cheers

Sir Victor · Post by **Sir Victor** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:15 pm

Sebastian,

send me a price list too. (with USA shipping)

I'm also interested to see how, or if a rattan core works as well.

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:10 am

Ach the price list. I dont have one, not per se. You see, they are mostly single pieces. But I will try to illustrate pricing a bit.

Prices (for swords) reach from around 45 Euros to 110 Euros.

45 Euro gets you a basic training/pseudo Viking sword, like this (now slimmer baldes than in the picture):

[img]http://sebastian-kempkens.de/bilder/3basic.jpg[/img]

approx 75 Euro gets you a sword like this (never mind the colors, I use othe ones now, also slimmer blades now)

and 95-110 Euros get you swords like the ones you see in the above pics (not the short sword obviously)

Shipping: Shipping ground fo a single sword under 120 cm (47 inches) is about 20 Euro (25$). For that price I can ship two swords as well as one I believe, if not I can for slighly more. Additional swords on the same package cost less than new packages. Shipping always have to be calculated on an individual basis, but this should serve as a rough guide. If you know soemone in Germany who can proxy order for you and ship through APO this gets shipping down quite a bit.

Fearghus,

can you provide a picture of what you are looking for? I can look through my stock, and, if unsuuccesful, give you a quote for time and price.

Master Aethstan,

I really would like to tackle this, but I need your help. I fear I need along chat with you on the subject of the practical implications of the SCA standards. You doing any events this winter?

BTW: Anybody himself or know someone selling armour ad stuff at faires and events? I am still looking for a retailer in the US for Armour and the weapons-

With the best regards from Germany

Sebastian

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:21 am

Sebastian,
Basicaly what I'm looking for is the latex version of this:

Are your weapons safe to thrust with? If not, can thye be made to be?

Alasdair MacArthur · Post by **Alasdair MacArthur** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

I got to handle the sword Frieman has. They are very nice. I'd be OK with thrusting with them. I'm planning to buy a couple.

Alasdair

freiman the minstrel · Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:22 pm

Fearghus wrote:Sebastian,
Basicaly what I'm looking for is the latex version of this:

Are your weapons safe to thrust with? If not, can thye be made to be?

Feargus,

I talked with Sebastian this morning, and he said that making a pommel that is round is a little tough. He can make ball handles, or any sort of a flat-ish round or octagonal handle, but (for instance) a brazil nut pommel is really tough.

He makes all of these by hand. I think he's nuts.

I am pretty sure that he can make you the waster you pictured, but with a slightly different pommel.

f

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:37 am

No worries, a pommel like the pseudo-viking swords would work just as well. I used the waster pic because that's the waster I have.

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:57 am

Sebastian,

Sorry, I missed your query.

I am not sure what events I will be at in the near future - it all depends on my Dad's health. But we can chat any time by mail or on +49 103 6027 123.

Cheers

Aeth

Woeg · Post by **Woeg** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:54 pm

Sebastian,

I understand that this may be a question you can't answer, but how do you apply the latex to the weapons? I tried making a similar style sword once, and while it looked okay, I couldn't get the latex to go on evenly...it had a lot of "latex boogers" in it...

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:09 pm

Fearghus,

shoot me a length and I will gladly shoot you a quote.

Aethstan;

Are you at Aventiuere Tavern?

Woeg:

Well, yes and no. I cannot write down my entire production way of doing it (especially in regards to coloring the latex and finishing up the outer layer), but if you tell me

a)your application method (latex glove, foam roller, brusch, continual pressure compressor w/paint gun)

b)your Latex type (LA/MA/HA, pre vulcanized or not)

c)your intended end colours, and what you used so far.

The more info you can give me the more I can and wuill galdly help you.

Re:Thrusting

I strongly advise against thrusting witrh these. While I work hard to make them safe and durable in all regards it is not what I designe these weapons in mind with. Please be careful!

Cheers

Sebastian

Ned Chaney · Post by **Ned Chaney** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:23 pm

Holy Macaroli!! These swords are BEAUTIFUL!! Excellent work. There is a WMA group who uses foam swords like these but I can't remember the name of the group! They even had a construction page on how to make foam swords. I'd MUCH rather get one of these to use for something like that. Very nicely done man!

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:50 am

Thank you good sir for that compliment!

AlucardTheDruid · Post by **AlucardTheDruid** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:39 am

So how many American dollars do they cost...and will i get a discount if i buy in bulk?

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:33 pm

Alucard,

I use the stock exchange fixing of $-Ã¢â€šÂ¬. Friday that was 100$ would buy you 77 Euro. I will accept US$ at 80 Eurocents per Dollar.

Bulk ordering will allow for some discounts, and especially for a much lower per-weapin shipping rate. Please let me know what you want, I am sure we can find an agreement beneficial for both of us.

Cheers

Sebastian

Sir Guy · Post by **Sir Guy** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:48 pm

Do you make simitars? There is a War in Japan in April and since I have the middle eastern garb and some chain I am figuring on going as a Moor.

Thanks

Sir Guy

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:56 pm

Sir Guy,

I do make Scimitars. Please give me a week or so to get back to you with pictures of my previous works.

Chers

Sebastian

For those who wanted to see my Latex sparring swords/boffers

For those who wanted to see my Latex sparring swords/boffers

rattan core

Price list