WTB Conical Nasal helm/Spangenhelm!

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:23 pm

Well guys, I'm in dire need of a Viking/Saxon/Norman era Conical helmet! I'm looking primarily for a perfectly plain piece, with just a nasal, but spangens or nasal-less helmets would also be acceptable, as long as they're conical and fit the era (and in steel, of course!)

My head is 22.5" in circumferece, but I plan on wearing it over a coif and thin padded cap, so that would bring it to about 24.5" in circumference. IF Someone has a helmet for sale with a liner that would comfortably fit 22.5" don't hesitate to post, as I will consider it! I'm willing to spend about $150, or possibly up to $175 with a liner. I'm not looking for dinged up helmets, etc... SLIGHT scratches, nicks, and the like are fine.

If you can help, please post! I've tried Albion, but they're out of "medium or small" helmets, and I don't care too much for their munitions grade stuff (even if it is custom fit) for the price... I'd go with someone like Manning Imperial, but I don't want to wait, and virtually every helmet on ebay is "one size fits all" which means it will probably fit around my waist!

Thanks.

-Gregory-

WaaaghBoss · Post by **WaaaghBoss** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:30 pm

I have one- here is a pic or two:

$100 will take it.

It has never been used (other than a couple rides in full maille for a halloween party at the barn). It does have a few spots of light surface rust but I can clean that up. It does have a leather suspension liner and leather head band for attaching an aventail. I believe it is 25" around, but can double check. It fits me fine with a coif and thin arming cap with a touch of room to spare. The coif was 12.5 ga. aluminum...

Let me know if interested.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:37 pm

Hey sir,

With the 25" circumference, I'm doubtful, but I'll get an arming cap together soon, and double check the circumference with that on. $100 is a bargain, so, it'll be hard to pass up! Thanks for the reply. I'll get back to you if I'm interested.

-Gregory-

white mountain armoury · Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:48 pm

I can build to suit, but im not in your price range.
175.00 unlined

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:03 pm

A custom piece is different, and I'd willingly raise the price, since it would be new... How long would the backlog be on such an item, if say... I ordered it in two weeks?

Also, do you do lining? I'd be willing to pay, if it's reasonable, of course:D

Cheers!

-Gregory-

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:08 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:15 pm

Hey Stephen, thanks for the link.

If, by chance, that's your auction (or that of someone you know) could you give some more information about the size? It looks much like a "one size fits all" showing an image of another guy with a big head, if you ask me... The helmet is pretty, although I'd personally rework the nasal, as it's a bit large for my tastes!

-Gregory-

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:26 pm

The maker is Lewis Moore. he has a crapload of very happy people on this board for customers. Just send him a email thru the auction. Tell him you were sent the link to his ebay auction from Stephen on the armour archive. You will find him to be very nice and willing to work with you in whatever you need. He is located in georgia.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:47 pm

Oh, thanks Stephen. I'm afraid that asking him isn't quite in the question... Currently, if nothing comes up around here for grabs, I've already gotten offers from two armorers (one who posted in here) to do my own comissioned piece. I'll probably end up going with one of those!

Thanks again, though!

-Gregory-

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:53 pm

Well what do you know.....
I saw the spangen helm on the e-bay link.

What ever happened to:

These Patterns are free to all with the understanding that credit should be given to the owners.
http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/n ... _halberds/

I put that pattern here with hopes that newbies could make their own spangens, not that a business could copy my design for profit.

I had a saltshaker and great helm pattern I have been wanting to add to the pattern archive... If this is the treatment I get... forget it!

Halberds

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:12 am

Well, Stephen said that it was Lewis Moore and his apprentice who did it, so maybe you can contact them and work it out... The general idea of your pattern would be okay to follow without credit, as it is very basic, but to do it EXACTLY like yours (which they did) is a bit of a stretch...

Anyway, with that pattern, I may try to make one myself, without a nasal, for a viking outfit to go without a coif... I'll likely leave one of the two armorers to make a a plain nasal helmet to go with the coif;)

-Gregory-

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:56 am

Best of luck making your own armour it is a rewarding experience.
Welcome to the madness....

Take your time and don't get in a hurry. Their is a learning curve ahead of you.
Follow the instructions and improvise where you can.

Do not continue when your body hurts, Take lots of breaks to loosen up.
Do not over cramp your thumb...

Have fun... If it ain't... stop.

Hal

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:40 am

If it is a basic armour pattern that is made public and someone uses it to make money then I would think it is achieving two things. practicing smart buisness and flattering the pattern maker. I thought people who would take issue with thier writings and such would copywrite or patent them. Like when people trademark their own design logos and such. I would think the person who puts out info for public use would not have any feeling on what was done with such?
To copy a pattern exactly is normally what is done in the first stages of creating from a pattern no matter whose pattern it started off being. Then small to major changes or modifications will be made from others made. Lewis stated that this was a begining attempt made by himself and his apprentice. I would think he would instruct his apprentice to start off by following the pattern as close as possible. this would aid in his learning as well.
I am quite sure that Lewis will be making changes and mods to this piece of armour. He does to all his armour as he progresses with each piece.
If he decided to not change a thing he is completely within his right as well. And there is nothing wrong morally wrong with that. How many armourers have bougtht or obtained a piece of armour to take it apart and make a pattern from it and learn to make said armour. Then you build a few and begin to make changes to suit you. You then sell the one or two begining ones to further your love of the trade. Is that morally wrong? You have taken a pattern and made the armour and are now selling it. You have no idea wether this piece of armour you obtained started out as a copywrited pattern or not? And you have now made your own and sold it. There seems to be more of a grey area there then taking a publically submitted pattern and making the armour.
On a ending note, I am sure that if someone felt very strongly about a alleged pattern stealing or a moral judgement call then Lewis would be more than happy to make minor adjustments to this armour to make it not as the pattern intended it to be. He will most likey be doing that anyway. Like most good armourers do.
he also started the bidding at $10.00 bucks! Like his Armet attempt he also has up. He does not feel at all good about charged a bunch for his and his apprentices first several attempts at new armour. He has chosen to open the bidding at barely the cost of materials.
I think Mr. Moore is one of the best all round armourers and armour buisness persons in the market today. He will tell you when a peice is not his forte' and he will not sell you a piece of armour without letting you know if it is a prototype or beginning attempt or wether it is a piece he is very happy with. He lets you know where each piece of armour stands and if it will work for you.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:00 pm

I yield.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:31 am

Mr. Moore has amended his Ebay posting:

"On Nov-28-04 at 20:36:19 PST, seller added the following information:

Please note that this helm was patterned after Halberds posting on the Armor Archive."

Thank you sir.

Hal

Ps: I am honored to see the apprentice's work.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:40 am

Gregory J. Liebau
New Member

I apologize for hijacking your thread with my rant.
Best of luck on your helm quest. The one on Ebay now seems like a bargain.
My basic spangen kits are more than that:
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/h ... genkit.jpg

Hal

Nothing better than a Norman spangen with a coif I always say.

WaaaghBoss · Post by **WaaaghBoss** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:40 am

Gregory,

I polished the helm this weekend. Looks very nice. I believe the circumference is 25", but I will measure.

Let me know if interested.

Cheers!
~Kevin

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:20 pm

Halberds wrote:Gregory J. Liebau
New Member

I apologize for hijacking your thread with my rant.
Best of luck on your helm quest. The one on Ebay now seems like a bargain.
My basic spangen kits are more than that:
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/h ... genkit.jpg

Hal

Nothing better than a Norman spangen with a coif I always say.

Nice kit you have there, Halberds. I've been viewing some of the patterns out there, including your own, and some from private sites, as well as some of Arador's good ones. I'm personally planning on launching into one with my friend Justin for his own Viking Equipment... I work my summer's, hence I'm more financially stable than most 16 year olds, so, we have to remedy for him much of the time. But, he's very capable, and splendid at this craft which is slowly dawning on us more (I'm better with leather, myself, and he with odd pieces of metal and making them pretty!). I'm sure that we'll take your design into consideration!

I'll personally be wearing a pretty one piece (well, two pieces, but made to look like one) nasal helmet I'm having White Mountain Armoury make for me!

Waaaaghboss. 25" is just a tad small for what I'm looking for to go over my coif and padded cap. I'm getting one made at about 25.5"... Sorry.

You're price is great, but, A spangenhelm isn't totally out of my level of armoring to make, and getting the one piece nasaled look is more important to me, since it's less likely I'll be able to accomplish it as a project on my own!

Thanks for the replies, though!

-Gregory-

Lubricant · Post by **Lubricant** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:31 am

I have one! It was made my Armoure Eric. Made in 13 Guage mild steel and a very nice brass nasal and an exterior bar cage and conical top with solid sides. It will fit a 24" head. Never used and ready to go to a good home for $200 plus $20 shipping along with this deal I will throw in a VHS tape of "In Service to the Dream" an SCA/Caid recruting tape. Please send all questions and inquires to farspeaker1@msn.com. Sorry! I dont have picture capabilites at this time. I also have permission from Eric to plug the helm. I can also be contacted at 805-734-3408 anytime.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:01 am

Lubricant wrote:I have one! It was made my Armoure Eric. Made in 13 Guage mild steel and a very nice brass nasal and an exterior bar cage and conical top with solid sides. It will fit a 24" head. Never used and ready to go to a good home for $200 plus $20 shipping along with this deal I will throw in a VHS tape of "In Service to the Dream" an SCA/Caid recruting tape. Please send all questions and inquires to farspeaker1@msn.com. Sorry! I dont have picture capabilites at this time. I also have permission from Eric to plug the helm. I can also be contacted at 805-734-3408 anytime.

Well, two problems...

First, I already made a purchase (the ebay auction sited earlier)

Secondly, I'm not looking for an SCA helmet, but a reeactment helmet. No cage, no cheek pieces, no neck protection... I just wanted a plain, simple conical helmet with a nasal, period;)

But, thanks for sharing. It could be helpful to someone else browsing around!

-Gregory-

WTB Conical Nasal helm/Spangenhelm!

WTB Conical Nasal helm/Spangenhelm!

:-(