I recently went thru and reorganized and updated my image archives.
See http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archives/archives.htm
Image archives updated
Moderator: Glen K
Halvgrim,
What else do you know about this item?
http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archi ... cals/5.JPG
It apears as though it's constructed in the 'Great Polish' style. Is there a 'find name' for this helmet one could use in doing research? Where was this image published? Is a date given?
Some images from western European illuminations have been interpreted as depicting helmets constructed in the Great Polish style, an archaeological find to compliment them would be great.
~Wil
What else do you know about this item?
http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archi ... cals/5.JPG
It apears as though it's constructed in the 'Great Polish' style. Is there a 'find name' for this helmet one could use in doing research? Where was this image published? Is a date given?
Some images from western European illuminations have been interpreted as depicting helmets constructed in the Great Polish style, an archaeological find to compliment them would be great.
~Wil
"The teeth are spears and arrows, and the tongue is a sharp sword'- St. Bernard of Clairveaux
Wil wrote:Halvgrim,
What else do you know about this item?
http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archi ... cals/5.JPG
It apears as though it's constructed in the 'Great Polish' style. Is there a 'find name' for this helmet one could use in doing research? Where was this image published? Is a date given?
Some images from western European illuminations have been interpreted as depicting helmets constructed in the Great Polish style, an archaeological find to compliment them would be great.
~Wil
--Its an image from Lakings book.
I can look thru my copy and see if there is any additional info
Halv
Laking says (on page 45) :
"The sixth helmet is of iron, and is in the collection of Dr. Bashford dean of New York (Fig 59, a, b). It is differently constructed, and no stands 7 1/2 inches high, having lost its lover encircling band. It is composed of four sections, those of the front and back overlapping the side panels. The four joinings, in each case, being made by two rivets, have heads in the interior. each segment is 6 1/2 inches wide at its base. This helmet is said to have been found in the north of France. It is somewhat difficult to assign an accurate date, as it has a slight Oriental influence in its form. It can probably be accepted as being of the XIIth or XIII century."
So your right, I have it categorized incorrectly, it sounds more like one of the 'Great Polish' helms.
I will fix that;)
Halv
"The sixth helmet is of iron, and is in the collection of Dr. Bashford dean of New York (Fig 59, a, b). It is differently constructed, and no stands 7 1/2 inches high, having lost its lover encircling band. It is composed of four sections, those of the front and back overlapping the side panels. The four joinings, in each case, being made by two rivets, have heads in the interior. each segment is 6 1/2 inches wide at its base. This helmet is said to have been found in the north of France. It is somewhat difficult to assign an accurate date, as it has a slight Oriental influence in its form. It can probably be accepted as being of the XIIth or XIII century."
So your right, I have it categorized incorrectly, it sounds more like one of the 'Great Polish' helms.
I will fix that;)
Halv
Excellent, thanks very much for the info. I am sincerely going to try and track down more info about this item!
This helmet:
http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archi ... owHelm.jpg
is interesting too, I believe there's a line drawing of it in David Nicolle's "Arms & Armour of the Crusading Era" with some additional information. I'll take a look and let you know next time I'm on that side of the campus
~Wil
This helmet:
http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archi ... owHelm.jpg
is interesting too, I believe there's a line drawing of it in David Nicolle's "Arms & Armour of the Crusading Era" with some additional information. I'll take a look and let you know next time I'm on that side of the campus
~Wil
"The teeth are spears and arrows, and the tongue is a sharp sword'- St. Bernard of Clairveaux
Says here:
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/Fossil_ ... /dean.html
that the Metropolitan Museum of Art eventually aquired Bashfor Dean's arms & armour collection. I'm going to email them this afternoon and see if it is still part of their collection. Thanks Halvgrim
~Wil
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/Fossil_ ... /dean.html
that the Metropolitan Museum of Art eventually aquired Bashfor Dean's arms & armour collection. I'm going to email them this afternoon and see if it is still part of their collection. Thanks Halvgrim
~Wil
"The teeth are spears and arrows, and the tongue is a sharp sword'- St. Bernard of Clairveaux
Wil wrote:Excellent, thanks very much for the info. I am sincerely going to try and track down more info about this item!
This helmet:
http://www.missouri.edu/~winsloww/archi ... owHelm.jpg
is interesting too, I believe there's a line drawing of it in David Nicolle's "Arms & Armour of the Crusading Era" with some additional information. I'll take a look and let you know next time I'm on that side of the campus
~Wil
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... research invariably just leads to more damn questions.
What stood out in my mind was the hook on the nasal. I couldn't find an exact drawing in Nicolle that looked like your pic (OstrowHelm.jpg), but I found a raised conical with a hooked nasal. Here's the pic:
Nicolle Helmet
And the accompanying text, though a bit crooked (sorry
).
Curious, I did a few google searches and found something interesting; Ostrow, or Ostrow Lednicki, is an island in the middle of Lake Lednicki, which hosted a stone fortification in the 11th century.
So, I'm starting to think that your Ostrow Helm and Nicolle's Lake Lednikie Helm are the same piece. I couldn't really tell if the helmet in your pic was a 'Great Polish' four-piece or raised in a single piece as Nicolle has drawn it, so I lightened it a couple times. Take a look:
45% lighter
65% lighter
What are your thoughts?
There's also the possibility that two nasaled conical helmets were found in the same place, one of segmented construction and one raised in one piece.
TTYL
~Wil
"The teeth are spears and arrows, and the tongue is a sharp sword'- St. Bernard of Clairveaux
[quote="Wil"]
So, I'm starting to think that your Ostrow Helm and Nicolle's Lake Lednikie Helm are the same piece. I couldn't really tell if the helmet in your pic was a 'Great Polish' four-piece or raised in a single piece as Nicolle has drawn it, so I lightened it a couple times. Take a look:
45% lighter
65% lighter
What are your thoughts?
Seems to me they are the same hat
Which parallels a discussion I am having with Russ Scott (The Vikings) about some of the helms in his publication.
We have come up with at least 3 names for some of the hats he features;)
Halv
So, I'm starting to think that your Ostrow Helm and Nicolle's Lake Lednikie Helm are the same piece. I couldn't really tell if the helmet in your pic was a 'Great Polish' four-piece or raised in a single piece as Nicolle has drawn it, so I lightened it a couple times. Take a look:
45% lighter
65% lighter
What are your thoughts?
Seems to me they are the same hat
Which parallels a discussion I am having with Russ Scott (The Vikings) about some of the helms in his publication.
We have come up with at least 3 names for some of the hats he features;)
Halv