Side Sword the Society Earl Marshal's reply

[tessathehuntress]

Greetings!

I started a new topic, since I was worried this would be buried and not seen in the previous thread on Side Sword. The Society Earl Marshal sent out a reply this evening about this. I'm posting it below..

"Good Evening Everybody.

I have had several inquiries about the recent cessation of the side
sword experiment. I let this issue percolate for a few days before
publishing this explanation.
Please forward this to any list you care to.

I have observed several side sword demos in several different kingdoms.
I have talked with several KEMs, rapier marshals and rapier fighters
about the experiment. What became clear to me is this: no two demos or
explanations of the rules, training, requirements, etc... were the
same. What was presented to me initially was an ultra tightly
controlled experiment, standardized across the kingdoms. It has become
apparent to me that significant disconnects exist within the experiment
leading to an uncontrolled state. An uncontrolled state makes the
experiment unsafe. I talked it over at length with Aedun, the SRM; and
he agreed with me. I then instructed Aedun to shut the experiment down
and to re-evaluate the whole program, top to bottom. When he is
through, he will furnish his recommendations to me.

No one incident caused this decision. No one has been injured in the
side sword experiment to my knowledge.

My decision was based on safety concerns and concerns about the
direction of the experiment.

I expect the re-evaluation period to last not less than 90 days and
possibly as long as 180 days. Master Aedun has made it clear to me that
he wishes to move side sword into the SCA as another combat form. I
have promised him a fair review and nothing else. The continuation of
the experiment or the establishment of a new combat form is entirely
undecided at this time.

Until such time as you receive official word from Master Aedun, all side
sword activities will cease. Please feel free to write either Aedun or
myself with your views.
I will not answer every letter, I cannot speak for Aedun.

Thank you for your patience,

Robert Glendon of Auk
Society Marshal"

I hope that helps,

Tessa, Princess of AEthelmearc

[Josh W]

Why, what a sissified reply. I imagine this man to be a sycophantic, BoD-line-toeing, SCA Corporate drone. I'll bet he doesn't like half-swording or anything else historical either. What does his personal fighting rig look like?

[Broadway]

Sissified? Is that even a word?

Tell us how you really feel Josh.

Oh, and what is the definition of Sissified? In the dictionary.... I mean...

[jehan609]

Manhattan Kansas. Isn't that Calontir; where they don't do fencing anyway?? Awful strong opinion on something that isn't played in your area, or is this just an attack on the man??

jehan

[Ceddie]

What does his personal fighting rig look like?

What difference could this possibly make?

[Aidan Cambel]

His fighting rig is a very nice, historically accurate rig, and his reigns as King attest to his prowess on the field.

But that has nothing to do with his answer.

Simply put... he has cancelled the experiment because no one can seem to get a controlled set of rules for the experiment and couldn't get things to be done uniformly. How can you expect a decision to be made from a test that is being performed different everywhere?

THe SEM has more to worry about than you and your petty words and feelings. To attack him using words like "sissified" and attacking his personal fighting rig and historical accuracy - which you know nothing of nor attempted to find out before criticizing - shows your closed mindedness and immaturity.

If you disagree, thats fine. everyone has an opinion, but your post was out of line. He has done so much for historical accuracy in Meridies and the Society as a whole, that you should be immediately writing your apology letter.

You should really learn something about people before you dis them.

[LR of E]

If it matters heres what Sir Robert looks like

http://www.chiptalbert.com/photo-album/ ... es/002.htm

Josh, In my opinion I think your being a little harsh on the man. His letter explains his views on why he stopped the experiment. and I gotta agree with Jehan, was Calontir even doing side sword? You'll notice his helmet is one of Sir Richard Wolfwood's, he's in you neck of the woods ask him about Robert Glenden.

[jester]

Simply put... he has cancelled the experiment because no one can seem to get a controlled set of rules for the experiment and couldn't get things to be done uniformly. How can you expect a decision to be made from a test that is being performed different everywhere?

1) He hasn't cancelled the experiment he has suspended it. The former implies a degree of permanance while the latter implies that the program will be back after some time (90-180 days according to his letter).

2) I would think that regional variation would be good (It worked well this way, but not this way.) for evaluation purposes but that's just my opinion. The SEM perceived a safety issue and acted as he felt he must. That's enough for me unless future evidence (not opinion or rumor) indicates otherwise.

[blackbow]

Sissified? Is that even a word?

Tell us how you really feel Josh.

Oh, and what is the definition of Sissified? In the dictionary.... I mean...

Matt: No, I don't agree with Josh. But FYI, I hereby recommend www.websters.com to you. It would have answered both your questions.

2 entries found for sissified.
sis·si·fied ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ss-fd)
adj.
Of, relating to, or having the characteristics of a sissy; timid, cowardly, or effeminate.

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


sissified

adj : having unsuitable feminine qualities [syn: effeminate, emasculate, epicene, cissy, sissyish, sissy]

Regards,

Jonathan Blackbow

[Broadway]

Thanks Jon. But I was more or less just razzing Josh...

Now we're gonna have to hear for weeks in chat:

* * *

Josh_Warren: I'm not an asshole am I guys?

Broadway: What?

Josh_Warren: I mean, when you read my posts, you don't think "This guy is an asshole." Do you?

Broadway: Well sometimes.

Josh_Warren: Cause, I mean, I don't want people to think I'm an asshole.

* * *

But, I'll check the dictionary before I make sarcastic vocabulary comments from now on, just for you Jon.

[blackbow]

Thanks Jon. But I was more or less just razzing Josh...

Now we're gonna have to hear for weeks in chat:

* * *

Josh_Warren: I'm not an asshole am I guys?

Broadway: What?

Josh_Warren: I mean, when you read my posts, you don't think "This guy is an asshole." Do you?

Broadway: Well sometimes.

Josh_Warren: Cause, I mean, I don't want people to think I'm an asshole.

* * *

But, I'll check the dictionary before I make sarcastic vocabulary comments from now on, just for you Jon.

LOL...for me and my Asperger's Syndrome.

JB

[Ron Broberg]

But, I'll check the dictionary before I make sarcastic vocabulary comments from now on, just for you Jon.

Hey! Don't forget google research: http://www.google.com/search?q=sissify

[Broadway]

Now you're just messing with me... Asperger's isn't a word.

[Robert_C]

Now you're just messing with me... Asperger's isn't a word.

It is both a name and a clinical diagnosis. He isn't messing with you... about this.

[Ulrich]

Why, what a sissified reply. I imagine this man to be a sycophantic, BoD-line-toeing, SCA Corporate drone. I'll bet he doesn't like half-swording or anything else historical either. What does his personal fighting rig look like?

Josh,

Just a few points;

1 - I don't see how the reply was "sissified", Earl Robert simply states, (and I'm boiling it down) that the experiment that was going on was not the same as the experiment that he was presented with, and agreed to. As such he is shutting it down for re-evaluation.

2 - You have quite the vivid Imagination, it would have to be, for you to believe that Earl Robert would ever be a sycophant of any kind. He is one of the most straight spoken direct and honest people I have ever met.

3 – BoD-line toting corporate drone? You honestly have no clue how the SCA or especially for that matter the SEM office works do you?

4 - Not liking half-swording...who cares if he likes it or not, he agreed to let it be experimented with on the kingdom level...that’s enough.

5 - Not liking anything else historical...that’s laughable, He is a huge student of history, and has a degree in it. From personal experience, he is specifically knowledgeable in Military History.

6 - His personal rig has already been linked, not that it matters a whit.


Now that all of your questions have been answered, it’s my turn to make a statement. Earl Robert is a fine and honest person, a wonderful husband and father, an exemplary knight of the society and a good man. But most of all he is my friend. And I personally found your comments to be rude, uncalled for, un-informed, libel, crass, unfounded and one of the largest cases of keyboard courage I have ever seen. (Especially from someone without a dog in the fight) And, while Earl Robert most certainly doesn’t need me to champion him, I’d hate to have him waste his time.

As such….

I give you two choices,

1 – Issue a public (here on the archive), and private apology to His Excellency (marshal(at)sca.org)

or

2 – Meet me on the field and I shall extract your apology from you.

I shall be at many events, pick one if you can pull yourself away from your keyboard.

Candlemas – Midrealm, Gulfwars – Meridies, Lillies – Calontir, (most likely) Pennsic, or I will travel to you if necessary. (I assure you this is no keyboard courage.)

Regards,
THL Ulrich von Brandenburg
Squire to Sir Conal MacDale

(oh and so you know me, I'm in the rig thread...thats right, Earl Robert helped me design, research and build my rig as well.)

edit for grammar

[Murdock]

Yeah Robert's not a bad guy. I don't agree with him all the time, but he's ok.

Disagrement is one thing Josh but that was unnecessary.

[Josh W]

Why is it that whenever you vehemently disagree with someone online, somebody always crawls out of the woodwork to accuse you of being cowardly? "Keyboard Courage", and all that nonsense... I utterly reject your ultimatum, Ulrich. I'd gladly and proudly say in this man's presence everything I've said here, as well as what follows...

I neither retract nor regret anything I said. I concede, I don't know the guy, but I do not believe that I impugn him without what I feel is just cause. I don't like his reason for putting a halt to what seemed to me like one of the best things to happen in the SCA as far as moving it forward, and bringing it more in tune with the current state of scholarship in the field of research into how medieval combat was really done. It seems like a flimsy excuse to me, and I thus look for other possible motives in the man. I note that he portrays a stereotypically "early period" persona. Does he harbor some degree of contempt for what he perceives as being exclusively late-period in the Society?

I'm sure he's a magnanimous man, as long as you're playing the game as he feels you (and everyone else) ought to play it. I feel he's exploiting his position to force his vision on everyone else and is hiding behind the "safety first" excuse. To me, he emboides the traditional SCA fear of change. I do not feel my comments were uncalled-for or out of line (well, not *too* much, anyway).

Oh, and I'm frankly not impressed by his kit either. He looks like (more than?)half the SCA around here (leather lamellar is common to the point of ubiquity), only with pteruges and slightly cleaner. What would be so wrong with hiding the unsightly limb armour under a long-sleeved tunic?

[Murdock]

I agree that it's a flimsy reason, the same thing could be said of rattan "no two demos or
explanations of the rules, training, requirements, etc... were the
same." The SCA rattan combat is all over the board.

And to state that is one thing, i agree with your position on tons of stuff Josh. The immediate personal attack was unnecessary and likely counterproductive.

Your right "side sword" is likely the best way to get real medieval combat technique into the SCA, obviously rattan isn't gonna change significantly, no matter how much research comes out.

but...
I read the explanation to say "i'm gonna make em get their ducks in a row and then we'll try it again." Fine by me.

[Ron Broberg]

WWSVD? ©


What would Sir Vitus do? ©










Copyright 2005 - Ronald Broberg

[Marshal]

I think Josh goes too far in disprizement, but it does seem an odd rationale: lack of uniformity necessarily makes for unsafe conditions? By that standard both rattan ( even within a form like sword and board ) and rapier are also unsafe, because there are both regional differences and style differences in the way they are all fought as well...

Many roads to one destination are not automatically a bad thing.

Oh, well. Let's hope the issues get resolved and the experiment moves forward. I am looking forward to the opportunity to try it someday.

[Gordon the Grey]

I must say that I felt that a personal attack was NOT called for and very counterproductive. I would also like to remind Ulrich that unless he was joking ,a personal challenge to combat on a SCA list to settle a personal matter is VERY much not allowed and is in fact DUMB allround. What are you going to do jack up the force levels to lethal as both would be rinoing to all hell! As a squire you should know that or your Knight should have explaned it to you!!
As to the original post I hope that the program is reinstatated as soon as possible and I would like to know more about why and how it went out of control. I really would like to try sidesword some day.

[Maeryk]

a personal challenge to combat on a SCA list to settle a personal matter is VERY much not allowed and is in fact DUMB allround. What are you going to do jack up the force levels to lethal as both would be rinoing to all hell! As a squire you should know that or your Knight should have explaned it to you!!

Uhh.. since when? It happens all the time. The question is if the two principals can keep it in their heads that they are going skill vs skill, and not macho vs macho.

Personally, I think it is kinda stupid to use a modern sport for this purpose, personally, and really no amount of dreamy edge-frame-gauzing can make me think that its anything other than two guys wearing modern equipment pounding each other with duct taped rattan.. not a duel in my book.. but hey.

Maeryk

[Mateo]

I find the SEM's assertion that no two demos were alike to be based on bad information. I am quite sure that the side sword project in the midwest is almost uniform, at least in my region. There is little difference between how it was being done in the Midrealm and how it was being done in Northshield, no matter where you were in either geographically vast kingdom.

He is incorrect. Wildly incorrect, to borrow a term. And unfortunately, those of us who were hoping to use the next 90 to 180 days to promote the project have to sit on our hands.

I also find the fact that he chose not to give warning, or inform any other portion of the marshallate to be a poor choice. Weather or not this stems from any kind of anti-rapier or anti-history sentiment is not for me to say, as I don't know the man. I deeply hope that is not the case.

[Marvin]

WWSVD?

What would Sir Vitus do?

Oh boy... ?

[Gordon the Grey]

I agree a modern duel should be fought with Barrlet .50s and Claymores following the rules of Trails by Ambush

[Maeryk]

WWSVD?

Kick em squarely in the junk while ranting wildly in German?



maeryk

[Maeryk]

I agree a modern duel should be fought with Barrlet .50s and Claymores following the rules of Trails by Ambush

WHy limit it to Barrets? I'm thinking general electric miniguns.

Maeryk

[Gordon the Grey]

I bow to your inspired sense of dueling,, Mini guns it is!! I forsee very few repeats and clean up will only require a mop!

[Uilleag]

I find the SEM's assertion that no two demos were alike to be based on bad information. I am quite sure that the side sword project in the midwest is almost uniform, at least in my region. There is little difference between how it was being done in the Midrealm and how it was being done in Northshield, no matter where you were in either geographically vast kingdom.

He is incorrect. Wildly incorrect, to borrow a term. And unfortunately, those of us who were hoping to use the next 90 to 180 days to promote the project have to sit on our hands.

I also find the fact that he chose not to give warning, or inform any other portion of the marshallate to be a poor choice. Weather or not this stems from any kind of anti-rapier or anti-history sentiment is not for me to say, as I don't know the man. I deeply hope that is not the case.

Mateo, before I go off completely uninformed, let me ask a question. Are you your Kingdom's Side-Sword representitive? If you are, and you did not recieve communication on the experiment, then you have every right to be upset.

However, I do know Sir Robert. I have witnessed his weapons experiments on both a kingdom level while he was Meridies' Earl Marshal and the few that have been conducted while he has held the SCA Earl Marshal position. I know from this expierience that he discusses the progress of the experiment quite frequently with the marshal's involved. This is not a public discussion until the results are announced.

Rapier fighting is recognized as an SCA-wide sanctioned activity but not all Kingdom's allow it. In comparrison, rattan combat has an SCA, Corporate level set of guidelines. This is the standard that all regions that participate in rattan combat MUST follow. Each individual Kingdom may add to this standard, but they may not take away from it. Back to the Side-sword experiment. Before individual regions add on to the techniques and standards a minimum standard must be established. Inorder to do this everyone needs to be operating on the same page. This isn't in just one kingdom / region this is Society wide.

Earl Robert has traveled, at his own expense, to every kingdom currently participating in the side-sword experiment. He has watched the demos, spoken with the marshals involved. His decision is based off of these observations and conversations with these marshals.

Being responsible for the safety of every marshal related activity in every part of the SCA is a tremendous responsibility, one that is impoosible to please everyone. Safety MUST be the first consideration. Knowing Sir Robert to be a rough and tumble, agressive fighter, knowing his abhorence for active marshaling, (i.e.: excessive holds, etc), and knowing his love for fighting, the SCA, and his job as Society EM, I think I can say with some confiedence that he did not come to his decision lightly. Nor did he ban side-sword. He said get your stuff standardized and then let's move forward.

Personal attacks in this forum, or any other are very juvinile, IMO. There are those that have made these attacks here, and where I can see the individuals points, I cannot agree with the methods used. I count the two main individuals who have written these challenges / attacks to be at the very least friendly aquaintenances, or outright friends. If the subject cannot be discussed civily, then remove yourself from the conversation, because nothing constructive will be advanced with persoanl attacks or threats.

[Maeryk]

I, having no dog in this fight whatsoever, can see two sides to this:

1) The SEM is in a tenuous position. Theres a marked group that DO NOT want a "new" form of combat in the SCA. Whether that is due to ignorance, apathy, or misheld safety beliefs due to widely held but WRONG beliefs about "steel" weapons, matters not. It is a loud and, in some cases, powerful group. See the continuing flap over Combat Archery, and even the growing pains of fencing, and more specificially, schlagger combat!

2) There is a core group of people, (some of them the good gentles here) who _know_ that it is safe, and _know_ that it has the potential to be the "most medieval" combat thing we do. And I laud them for their research! But people who free-climb sheer rock faces know _that_ is safe too.. for them.

THe SEM has to balance between the two.. and has to appease both parties and make them "happy". Remember, as much as we (and the East is as guilty of this as anyone, if not more) view this as "The people's republic of the middle ages" we _STILL_ have a governing body that is not the BOD. We have Kings, and Barons, who can hand down laws and make them stick. That is one thing they have.. so pissing them off is a BAD idea. We also, on the other paw, have a populace that can _EASILY_ go somewhere else and do this, and/or start their own group to do it, and be totally free of the restrictions of the SCA. So they(SEM and crowd) are walking a fine line between pleasing those who Must Be Pleased, and not chasing off a potential dues-paying chunk of the SCA through heavyhandedness.

You know its safe. TO me (never having done it) it looks safe. But I can think of at least three people off the top of my head that I simply NEVER want swinging a piece of metal at me. 1/4, 1/2, or full speed. They lack control, they lack discipline, and our "other" combat series are designed to be SO safe that someone utterly and totally clueless, does not stand much of a chance of damaging you.

_I SUSPECT_ (tho as I said, this is not my dog) that the attempt here is to get Sidesword, eventually, to the point where it is "That safe". That should someone do the equivalent of the dude that waded into the field battle at Pennsic with a mahogany Bo wrapped with ball bearings and strapping tape, no-one is goign to be seriously injured.

That is the "side' that must be appeased.. the Corpora laden side, of some beancounters and insurance underwriters, the "Safety first safety foremost" crowd.. and _They_ are the ones who can pull the plug on anything, anytime they want. And I suspect (again, this is 100% opinion) that the SEM is trying to keep _THOSE_ people happy as well.

He is certainly stuck in between two or more factions.. and is apparently trying to handle that with some modicum of politeness and information. After watching what Tessa went through trying to get the "new" archery rules hashed out, I would not wish any position like that on my worst enemy, and I really have a lot of respect for ANYONE who would take on a job like that, knowing full well they _WILL_ be the coal between the rocks, and that all that pressure from both sides will most likely be on them.

A final note: I doubt very much if the detractors of his actions actually _know_ what was going on in every single group who was doing this. You probalby know your local area, and you were most likely doing it "fine" but not neccesarily like everyone else was doing it. one issue with SCA rulesets has _ALWAYS_ been wording, and that they rely heavily on interpretation. See any of the discussions here about "excessive" vs "hard" or "face thrust". Even that is laid out pretty plainly, but the conventions differ from region to region. With something that is _percieved_ to be as potentially unsafe as real, solid, metal blades, I think some do not want to go the Atlantia route, where calibration got so high they were, at one point, breaking their toys, and have since backed down. They are trying to get that set out from the beginning, so no-one has to end up with a pierced lung as a data point on a learning curve.

Just my .02 as a mostly disinterested observer.

Maeryk

[Odo]

A couple of things.

1. About Robert taking this action on his own without consulting others. A quote from his letter.

I have observed several side sword demos in several different kingdoms. I have talked with several KEMs, rapier marshals and rapier fighters about the experiment.

2. What Robert believed was an experiment tightly controlled ended up not being the case. It doesn't matter what rattan fighters do, this is a new form of combat with a specific set of criteria. When that wasn't the case, he ended this incarnation of the experiment. Here is Robert's quote.

What was presented to me initially was an ultra tightly
controlled experiment, standardized across the kingdoms. It has become
apparent to me that significant disconnects exist within the experiment
leading to an uncontrolled state. An uncontrolled state makes the
experiment unsafe.

3. Robert conversed with the Society Rapier Marshal and there was concurrence. The SRM will re-evaluate and make his recommendations. Robert never stated that this is the end. This may be the beginning of something even better than what we currently have.

I talked it over at length with Aedun, the SRM; and
he agreed with me. I then instructed Aedun to shut the experiment down
and to re-evaluate the whole program, top to bottom. When he is
through, he will furnish his recommendations to me.

4. He has agreed to give a fair review of the evaluation given by the Society Rapier Marshal. What more can you ask?

Josh:Ad hominem attacks are foolish, and shows immaturity. If you don't agree with the opinion you are free to state your own. To personally attack another makes your argument weak and your own motives become suspect.

I can assure you that your opinion of Robert means absolutely nothing to him. I will also assure you that if you present an argument based in fact that he will listen and take that information into account. I know him personally and although I have disagreed with decisions that he has made (mostly regarding combat archery) I have found that he listens to all well reasoned debate.

Odo

[jester]

On the subject of standardization I would like to echo the sentiments of a point made by William Wilson.

Within the narrow field that Sidesword explicitly covers there are a great many styles of fighting. Several Italian instructors, Silver, and then the whole Spanish school. These styles present very varied appearances.

I know that Sidesword enforces the period they are working with because I made inquiries about doing Italian longsword (and German sword and buckler) under the auspices of this program and both the Kingdom and Society level marshals regretfully informed me that Sidesword did not cover that aspect.

Finally, though I personally feel the rules do a poor job of making this clear, Sidesword is intended not as a form of competitive combat, but as a safe means of martial study in motion. Participants seek to apply the theories and teachings of historical instructors to see how they work and gain a greater understanding of them. This is fundamentally different from Rapier or Rattan combat and it looks different.

I still support the SEM in his actions and hope to see Sidesword back on the field (and expanding to allow Italian longsword!).

[Mateo]

Mateo, before I go off completely uninformed, let me ask a question. Are you your Kingdom's Side-Sword representitive? If you are, and you did not recieve communication on the experiment, then you have every right to be upset.

While I am not the Side Sword Marshal in charge of the kingdom, I am one of the few Side Sword Marshals for the Kingdom of Northshield, and communicate very closely with the person in charge of the experiment here. He did not recieve warning of any kind before the first missive went out to the public.

You made a point about standards - I would mention that those standards existed for the side sword project. It would not have been approved if they had not been written down. You can refer to the official sidesword rules if you like, which have been posted elsewhere on this board (the other thread). They are very clear.

Earl Robert has traveled, at his own expense, to every kingdom currently participating in the side-sword experiment. He has watched the demos, spoken with the marshals involved. His decision is based off of these observations and conversations with these marshals.

Has he been to the middle, or Northshield? I have not seen him or heared of his presence, though I could be wrong. In this part of the country, the experiment is highly controlled, very safe, and very uniform. I would suggest that perhaps His Grace had not visited here, or if he had, he had witnessed some kind of anomaly. Every single side sword practice, class, event, etc that I have witness, participated, or taught in has adheared to the minimums set down by the rules, and the intention of the project there in.

Being responsible for the safety of every marshal related activity in every part of the SCA is a tremendous responsibility, one that is impoosible to please everyone. Safety MUST be the first consideration. Knowing Sir Robert to be a rough and tumble, agressive fighter, knowing his abhorence for active marshaling, (i.e.: excessive holds, etc), and knowing his love for fighting, the SCA, and his job as Society EM, I think I can say with some confiedence that he did not come to his decision lightly. Nor did he ban side-sword. He said get your stuff standardized and then let's move forward.

I do not know the man, but am happy to trust other's judgement of him. However, his actions in this have led to many questions from those who feel very much in the dark. For better or for worse, deserved or not, that has been the net effect in many cases. I recognize his job is difficult, and he has a great responsibility. In truth, I wish that the office of SEM did not have control over all aspects of the martial arts in the SCA, but that is a dead horse of a different color.

I would assert that by Earl Roberts own words, no injury has been reported. I would assert that safety has been the primary concern for the project from it's inception, knowing that people get jittery about steel work. I don't see the safety argument as having much validity, at least from the perspective of a former midrealm sidesword marshal who is currently one of 3 Sidesword marshals in Northshield.

Either way, I recognize that the project is merely on hold. Frustrating as it is that I cannot participate in this very enjoyable activity for the next 90 days at a minimum within the confines of the SCA, I have no problem with trying to make it work.

I will say, however, that if there is an impossible standard of carbon-copy work accross the globe, it will never come to fruition. We have the miniums you describe. Those people making the point about how heavy is different speak of calibration differences, blow calling ettiquete differences....the list goes on and on. Holding sidesword to a standard we do not hold the other arts to hedges the bets against it, I think.

[Mateo]

I have observed several side sword demos in several different kingdoms. I have talked with several KEMs, rapier marshals and rapier fighters about the experiment.

My KEM heared nothing of the sort. I have yet to find a Sidesword Marshal who was spoken to before the announcement went out, or a rapier marshal at any level for that matter.

2. What Robert believed was an experiment tightly controlled ended up not being the case. It doesn't matter what rattan fighters do, this is a new form of combat with a specific set of criteria. When that wasn't the case, he ended this incarnation of the experiment. Here is Robert's quote.

I would argue that a less disruptive method would be to have Side Sword police itself - get the deputy sidesword marshal involved in the "rogue" cases.

What was presented to me initially was an ultra tightly
controlled experiment, standardized across the kingdoms. It has become
apparent to me that significant disconnects exist within the experiment
leading to an uncontrolled state. An uncontrolled state makes the
experiment unsafe.

I would love to know what precicely was unsafe, uncontrolled. As stated above, my experience in the middle and northshield does not in any way fit His Grace's statement.

4. He has agreed to give a fair review of the evaluation given by the Society Rapier Marshal. What more can you ask?

Warning. Transparency from the beginning. Some kind of indicator that there was a problem to fix. Clearly, no one knew that, or rather, they were allowed to go on doing something wrong while being observed by people who should have told them otherwise. As a marshal, if I see something wrong, I correct it right there. And document it. If it becomes systemic, it's a wider problem.

I can assure you that your opinion of Robert means absolutely nothing to him. I will also assure you that if you present an argument based in fact that he will listen and take that information into account. I know him personally and although I have disagreed with decisions that he has made (mostly regarding combat archery) I have found that he listens to all well reasoned debate.

This is good to know, and reassuring.

Mateo

[InsaneIrish]

Manhattan Kansas. Isn't that Calontir; where they don't do fencing anyway?? Awful strong opinion on something that isn't played in your area, or is this just an attack on the man??

jehan

Yes, It IS Calontir, No we don't allow fencing.

But why should that stop you from stereotyping an entire kingdom full of thousands of individuals with individual feelings on any given subject together?

I am not condoning Josh's rather strong words. He is his own man and can stand up for himself. Just because Calontir does not allow fencing does not mean we can not have a stance on the matter of Side Sword.

BTW, just to put it into perspective. Our current SEM is the same man that is contemplating BANNING Siloflex Swords Society Wide on the basis that they are "Laminated blade" and that the reasoning for allowing them in the first place is now no longer an issue.