an inverted demicrescent in chief!?! or: heraldry problems!

[Destichado]

Now that I've got your attention...!

I have a number of "problems" with placing multiple symbols on a single coat of arms that I don't know quite how to deal with, so I'm throwing up examples, and I'd be obiged if anyone could help me describe them in proper heraldic language.


Here's a pair of simple ones that I was able to hack together in Paint. Forgive the crude design, I'll paint prettier pictures when I get back to my home computer.
Example 1
Example 2

More will follow!

[Karen Larsdatter]

Not-really-a-heraldry-herald, but I think I know the answer! Yay.

On both of these images: "passant" is the closest position to what the boar is doing, AFAIK, though he really ought to have one of his front feet raised, with the other front foot on the ground. (If it was running, it'd be "courant"; if the body was up at more of an angle and both of the back feet were on the ground, it'd be "salient.")

(Here's a link for a good little passant boar: http://www.rarebooks.nd.edu/digital/heraldry/graphics/charges/beasts/boar.gif)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/Destichado/example1.bmp

Argent, a boar passant and in chief a key fesswise gules.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/Destichado/example2.bmp

Argent, a boar passant and in chief two crescents gules.

[Destichado]

so "in chief" is anything above the main charge? Interesting.



I know a charge is "proper" when it's in it's natural ordinary position -in the case of a spearhead (pheon), that's up and down. But how about a diagonal one like this? Example 3

And you can say there's two phaeons in chief and they'll be assumed to be side by side, but what about if there's two of them and they're the main charge? Example 4 I was thinking you'd say "a pair", but how would you distinguish that from if they were stacked one above the other?

Okay, now what if there's two diagonal ones, facing opposite directions? Example 5

And here's on that has me stumped. Would this be "arrayed"??? Example 6

[iaenmor]

http://sca.org/heraldry/primer/
The boar is in the position statant. Just a plain standing position. Passant is walking.

[Karen Larsdatter]

so "in chief" is anything above the main charge? Interesting.

"In chief" describes my best guess at what you were trying to do, in the absence of an actual escutcheon-shape around the heraldry. I assumed that the main charge was at the center of the heraldry, and the smaller charges were stuck way up in the chief.

I know a charge is "proper" when it's in it's natural ordinary position -in the case of a spearhead (pheon), that's up and down.

"Proper" would be the color. The pheon's default position has it pointing downward (I think that's what you mean).

But how about a diagonal one like this? Example 3

"Pheon bendwise."

And you can say there's two phaeons in chief and they'll be assumed to be side by side, but what about if there's two of them and they're the main charge? Example 4 I was thinking you'd say "a pair", but how would you distinguish that from if they were stacked one above the other?

For Example 4, you're looking at "in fess two pheons." If they were stacked on top of each other -- that is, arrayed vertically -- it'd be "two pheons in pale."

Okay, now what if there's two diagonal ones, facing opposite directions? Example 5

In that particular example, I'd call it "in fess a pheon bendwise and a pheon bendwise reversed."

And here's on that has me stumped. Would this be "arrayed"??? Example 6

No, kinda more "confused." If the ones at the sides were truly at right angles, rather than not-quite-at-right-angles, I guess I'd call it "in fess a pheon fesswise, a pheon, and a pheon fesswise reversed, " (though I may have the order of those three positions backwards).

[Rei Shounagon]

so "in chief" is anything above the main charge? Interesting.

"In chief" describes my best guess at what you were trying to do, in the absence of an actual escutcheon-shape around the heraldry. I assumed that the main charge was at the center of the heraldry, and the smaller charges were stuck way up in the chief.

What she said. You have the boar drawn so much bigger than the key or the crescents that it appears to be the main charge, so the other charges are blazoned in relation to the boar.

Okay, now what if there's two diagonal ones, facing opposite directions? Example 5

In that particular example, I'd call it "in fess a pheon bendwise and a pheon bendwise reversed."

My version would be "in fess a pheon bendwise and a pheon bendwise sinister". The second pheon is oriented along an imaginary bend sinister.

And here's on that has me stumped. Would this be "arrayed"??? Example 6

No, kinda more "confused." If the ones at the sides were truly at right angles, rather than not-quite-at-right-angles, I guess I'd call it "in fess a pheon fesswise, a pheon, and a pheon fesswise reversed, " (though I may have the order of those three positions backwards).

They are slightly more "one and two" than "in fess" to me. For my next trick, I will try to show what I mean by using only the keyboard:

In fess a pheon bendwise, a pheon, and a pheon bendwise sinister:
\| \|/ |/
A pheon bendwise, a pheon, and a pheon bendwise sinister, one and two:
. \|/
\| . |/

In heraldry, it's usually not recommended to do something that is not quite one thing nor quite another. But of course, if you don't ask, you don't know what the parameters are.

[Karen Larsdatter]

For my next trick, I will try to show what I mean by using only the keyboard:

PH34R J00R M4D L33T 4SC11 P0\/\/3RZ!

[Kevin]

For my next trick, I will try to show what I mean by using only the keyboard:

PH34R J00R M4D L33T 4SC11 P0\/\/3RZ!

God didn't make you right, Karen.

[Karen Larsdatter]

God didn't make you right, Karen.

He didn't?

Then ... who did?

[Effingham]

PH34R J00R M4D L33T 4SC11 P0\/\/3RZ!

Just FYI:

Diet Coke passing through one's sinuses is no less painful than regular Coke.

Just thought I'd let ya know.


Effingham

[Rei Shounagon]

:shock: PH34R J00R M4D L33T 4SC11 P0\/\/3RZ!

"I'm very sorry, I don't know what I should do or feel at a time like this."

[Konstantin the Red]

This former toiler in the nooks of the College of Heralds really really likes the boar passant Gules of the first two examples. Two or three pheons placed in the region of that honorable Ordinary known as the chief ["in chief"] might also be considered, in place of the crescents.

Most Ordinaries have a division of the field named after them, with the exception of the Chief, and the Canton, if the canton's an ordinary. I'll lump the Quarter under the Canton, as they differ only in size.

This won't be heraldically significant in the SCA ordinary and armorial, but jazzing up the boar by giving him different-colored tusks and eyes and tongue might be very attractive. Red critters often get this done in blue.