Raising the 'Schwabisch-Gmund' sallet video - Any interest?

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:18 pm

As previously hinted in another thread... plans are currently under discussion for a comprehensive video on raising a hat.

The actual hat in question (in the style of the Schwabish-Gmund sallet w/o bevor) will be created by Patrick Thaden for a raffle (yes, you could own this wonderous piece of modern armouring history) with all proceeds from donations going to support the Armour Research Society 1st Annual Conference.

Filming, editing and publication of a high quality armour construction video series is a very expensive undertaking. Add the fact that the complexity of the project is quite significant given that the helm will be raised from a billet of wrought steel and it is a rather monumental undertaking.

Is there interest in pre-order for such a video? Would there be benefit to the armouring world if such a production were published by Thaden Armoury and the ARS Practical Workshop?

RalphS · Post by **RalphS** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:39 pm

Count me in for a copy! Provided I can view it on my region 2 DVD player, or in other words: make sure the DVD is region-free.

But don't even bother with the good-oldfashioned regular magnetic video-tapes for my part!

William de Grey · Post by **William de Grey** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:40 pm

I would be interested. What is the expected price for video? Will it be on DVD? When is the expected release date?

William

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:26 pm

We will try desperately to make it region free. If not, this would be a good reason for you to move to America, Ralph. On second thought... stay there... we have plans for you! :twisted:

Release date to be determined. It would have to be prior to Sept timeframe... given that the hat would need to be completed well before then. And given Patrick's dedication to his work, I would not see it extneding beyond late summer/early fall '05.

Expected cost might not be cheap. Given the other subject matter VHS videos that have come out in the $100.00 range... and the fact that we will be producing in DVD format... and the planned quality of the shoot... It may very well be in the $50.00 to $100.00 range, depending on what final costs are.

There may need to be a preorder prior to actual production... all current ARS funds are responsibly allocated elsewhere.

Thoughts?

MigueldZ · Post by **MigueldZ** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:36 pm

I'm in. Though I'd have to pay for it with money allocated to upgrading my membership, but maybe I'll do well at the July and October wars. Either way, where do I send the check?

per lillelund jensen · Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:39 pm

It would be interesting to se Patrick have a go at the Schwabish-Gmund sallet i have already tried it.
From a billet?? very interesting, i would happily pay 50 or 100$ to se that, provided it is as Ralp said region free DVD.

Cheers
Per Lillelund

Thomas H · Post by **Thomas H** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:10 pm

I'd pay to see that. As hs been mentioned before, region free is a must i also have no Video player.

Signo · Post by **Signo** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:19 pm

I will pay the money if after each step the piece is showed to the camera by a very nice girl in bikini (if we can't make without bikini (just to save money obviously))
:lol:

Tarquin Bjornsson · Post by **Tarquin Bjornsson** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:30 pm

i'm in

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:40 pm

Signo wrote:I will pay the money if after each step the piece is showed to the camera by a very nice girl in bikini (if we can't make without bikini (just to save money obviously))

Marco,

Siete pazzo! Dovete trovare un compagno femminile, rapidamente.

Ciao amico!

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:42 pm

You are in somewhat of a quandry.... The cheaper you make it, the more you will sell... to a point, of course. At $50 a piece, you may sell 200....but at $25 a piece, you may sell 500.

I would be interested in one, but, of course, I have a debt that I need to pay off first.

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:08 pm

Wulfe wrote:You are in somewhat of a quandry.... The cheaper you make it, the more you will sell... to a point, of course. At $50 a piece, you may sell 200....but at $25 a piece, you may sell 500.

No quandry, really. Given what the market will easily support... they will most likely NOT be priced below $50.00. I think we would be doing Patrick's name and that of the ARS Practical Workshop a disservice with anything less.

This is a very focused and dedicated market and the price point needs to be identified given the expected number of sales. I highly doubt that there will be short term (1-2 year) sales in the quantity of 40-50... let alone 200-500. Simply not enough expected people interested in the subject for quick turn around of expenses, given our previous experience in the market of armouring related videos. Pricing the videos at $25.00... and overestimating the 500 unit sales (100 actual, per se) would be devistating to the bottom line.

A two hour Hollywood movie that does nothing but suck time from you costs $20-25.00. The original home-edited MAG videos are selling well for $20.00. Rob Valentine is selling VHS videos on basic armour techniques for $30.00. There was a greathelm VHS how-to selling for $100.00 a while back... and they were actually selling!

For a complex process such as raising... and the education that a video of this nature would provide... the armourer in me personally thinks that $50.00-100.00 range is a bargain.

Thoughts?

Anon001 · Post by **Anon001** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:15 pm

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Anon001 · Post by **Anon001** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:20 pm

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Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:22 pm

I might be interested...I know I have a few expenses coming up, but with production in the not so distant future, I think I can swing it. After raising some gadlings I think I need to know how to raise a helm...Otto

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:24 pm

Ingrid, are You and John going to Dougs tomorrow? Otto

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:28 pm

Ingrid wrote:What are the expenses? If you ask- you never know who might be able to defray production costs - for instance, my mom teaches radio/tv/film production at NIU. They have both Avid and Premiere, I have experience editing digitally on premiere, etc.
I'm sure there are folks out there willing to pitch in.
Ingrid

Good idea!

Expenses, in a very high level nutshell:

Storyboard/Layout/Scripting (coordinated Texas/Chicago)
Manufacturing (must be done in Texas)
Materials (must be done in Texas)
Filming (company has already been identified)
Editing
Review
Re-editing
(repeat prior two steps ad nauseum)
Reproduction (region free DVD duplication)

Yes, it may be possible to defray the costs... however, logistics and time constraints could make that cost reduction moot in a rather rapid fashion.

We are discussing the possibility of local editing in order to reduce cost as we have done editing in the past with other productions. Possibilities in this area would become more clear once the project is documented in detail. If it is decided that this is the way we will handle the project, we may ask for volunteers with experience in particular areas.

Archie Zietman · Post by **Archie Zietman** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:32 pm

I'd be extremely interested too.

RedLeg · Post by **RedLeg** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:34 pm

I would be interested.

Eric Dube · Post by **Eric Dube** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:56 pm

Am in too I would like to see someone else do some raising.

Eric

Thomas Powers · Post by **Thomas Powers** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:29 pm

I would be interested; esp since I still have a ton or so of WI plate sitting around rusting...

Thomas

Padrig · Post by **Padrig** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:41 am

I am in also!

Pad

Guillaume2 · Post by **Guillaume2** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:27 am

soooo....I'm the only one who still use VHS right?

well, it would give me a more concrete reason than american movie to buy a dvd player, so I'm in

Eamonn MacCampbell · Post by **Eamonn MacCampbell** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:01 am

I'd get one, I'm better at seeing things when I learn than reading...

Definatly get even if it was $100

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:13 am

Brian, those numbers were hypothetical. Yeesh. They were strictly used to make a point (being that with a lower price, you will sell more.)

I agree that the market is specific, but look closely at the market. There are several threads currently out there started by ML about how expensive armour is, where a number of people speak of having to save for a time to buy things. These are the people to which you speak. Wealth, for most, is not abundent. You haev to make sure you are not pricing it too high (you specifically list $100 as a possible price. IMHO, that is too high for your market.)

Sorry for not being more clear that the numbers were not hard facts, but hypothetical.

Erik D. Schmid · Post by **Erik D. Schmid** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:20 am

...you specifically list $100 as a possible price. IMHO, that is too high for your market...

Again I find myself repeating something that has been discussed on other threads. If you don't think it is worth it then don't buy it. This video is on a very specific subject. As such it is not going to see extremely wide distribution. It serves as a revenue generator for not only the upcoming conference, but also for other videos.

The armouring video put out by Valentine for $30 is sorely lacking in many, many areas. It is not much use to anyone truly interested in the how-to's of armour manufacture and it states as much. However, if you are looking for a video showing Rob working without a shirt then this is the one for you. :roll:

Peter Fuller's two video set sells for $99.95 and I doubt the quality is much better due to the fact that it is a great helm.

As has been stated before the video being out by ARS is going to be DVD format viewable in more than one region and it will also be professionally done. For something of this calibre $100 is not that much. I would have no problem spending that amount on something like this if I were interested in the subject.

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:24 am

The project has been green lighted. More information to come.

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:36 am

Brian W. Rainey wrote:The project has been green lighted. More information to come.

Good news indeed! ...Otto

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:06 am

Since you (Eric and Brian) seem to be reading either more into what I am saying or what you want into what I am saying, this is my last post on this topic.

I did not say it was not WORTH $100.
I said given your market, $100 may be too much.

I did not say that 200 or 500 would be your output # of DVD to sell. It was a hypothetical number used for example only.

What I am saying is that you should apeal to a price range that you target market can and will afford for the product you offer. It is basic business concept. The WORTH of a product is another matter entirely.

Erik D. Schmid · Post by **Erik D. Schmid** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:16 am

And what I am getting at is that this video is priced to sell in its target market. Those who want it are going to buy it and those who don't won't. Nothing complicated about it.

Signo · Post by **Signo** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:28 am

And so, now, the only question left unanswered is: it will be blonde, brunette, or red?
:lol:

Buy and see

Erik D. Schmid · Post by **Erik D. Schmid** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:36 am

Red of course... :wink:

carpathiavh99 · Post by **carpathiavh99** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:31 am

I'm in, but for $50 it better be one hell of a video.

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:57 pm

We are striving to CREATE the bar that all others will be measured against.... so no fear that the content and quality will be worthwhile.

On a side note.....

I don't understand something... please help me...

A book on making SCA armour that contains nothing above and beyond what you can find on free websites and/or a weekend at your buddy's place sells for $80.00 and people lap it up.

However, you mention making a detailed start-finish video of an exceptionally talented individual reproducing a famous piece of armour using some of the most authentic, complex and valuable metalworking techniques ever known to the armouring man... providing the teacher in your own living room.. with the possibility of watching it infinite number of times needed to determine exactly what he/she is doing and what you are doing wrong...

... for ~$50.00 and people are all of a sudden concerned about their investment.

I don't get it... can someone help me understand the cost/benefit ratio here... I must have it backwards.

Thoughts?

Armadillo · Post by **Armadillo** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:29 pm

I would gladly spend $100 dollars on this DVD. To have another artist share their technique in detail is a rare opportunity. I have spent many times this amount going to blacksmithing conferences over the past year. I welcome the opportunity for the demonstrator to come to me...whenever I want. I appreciate the ambition and the effort of those involved and look forward to reviewing the project.

Adair