Don't Worry It'll Only Hurt a Little!

Dorkknight · Post by **Dorkknight** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:12 pm

In the past few days I've managed to convince two of my friends to try out the SCA. One is big. One is little. The big friend can pretty much wear any sort of armour he chooses without being chased away by any minor pain associated with SCA combat. With the smaller guy it may not be so easy. He weights in at 120 pounds and is not a physical guy normally. He also had a reeeaaallly compound break to his forearm resulting in steel plates being screwed to his bones (so, he may not have to wear a vambrace on his right arm

) Seriously though, we want to consider protecting that arm at all costs because it is extremely fragile where his adamantium skeleton isn't grafted to the bones. What sort of armour would anyone recommend for a smaller guy? We don't want to break him his first time out and scare him. Any ideas?

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:27 pm

First of all, don't take him out east!

Is this something that he's in to, or is it being pressed on him? I ask because if he's that much of a stickboy, the only thing I'd be semi- comfortable seeing him wear is full tailored plate. And I would'nt put him in it if he's not one hundred percent into the idea.

HELMUT

mavrikii · Post by **mavrikii** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:48 pm

The second guy sounds a lot like the size of my lady, who does fight. She wears aluminum plate arms and legs, A plastic brig, a 14 ga helm, and LOTS of padding underneath (A full gambison and street hockey pants) She has never been injured in this suit despite fighting the "big boys".

And before anyone yells about the plastic, it is completely covered under a nice green leather.

Also, start him off training with people that you trust having him fight, people that won't break their toys. Then, once he knows what is going on, he can pick who he does/does not want to fight. (It is right in the conventions of combat) He will make his own decisions.

Mav

[This message has been edited by mavrikii (edited 03-12-2002).]

jgalak · Post by **jgalak** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 3:44 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by mavrikii:
Also, start him off training with people that you trust having him fight, people that won't break their toys. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, that's good advice for any new fighter. I can think of any number of otherwise competent fighters I wouldn't want newbies to fight for a few sessions...

------------------
Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 3:47 pm

buzbands apear to provide a lot of protection to that part of the arm. for torso armour japanes armour usualy does well
any thing from the lamalar to the DO style.
this covers a lot of period. lortice segmata also does well. But finding the brass bits is a little hard in my area. as for a helm stick with somthing that fits with the torso
barbrute for the lortic or a japanes helm (sorry cant think of the propper name right now) with the mask styled after A kendo face plate.

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 4:08 pm

My immediate thought was --

<big>Why does he have to fight Rattan???</big>

Once we get beyond that question then talk about armour specs.

------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 4:13 pm

OK, I'm with Norman on this one. It is a funny thing though that one of my friends and I are doing. He plays football at our college. He is about 5'-8" and weighs in about 250. None of it is fat. Now there's me, 6'-3" and 160lbs. Now heres the great part, he's going into rapier and I'm going into heavy. Most would expect the opposite. It is really funny... I guess you had to be there...

...

------------------
Torr O'Neal
The Irish, Norwegian Merc

mavrikii · Post by **mavrikii** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 5:58 pm

I agree that he does not have to fight rattan. But if the gentle is interested in trying heavy, let him. Just put in the safety and common sense factors. Generally I have found that after one or two practices, people decide whether or not it is for them.

Don't force, but don't discourage either.

Mav

sedric · Post by **sedric** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 6:41 pm

Will steel indoskeleton pass marshal?
This could lead to new designs in armouring.
Medi-gothic designs ,sharp angles protuding threw joints, fluted flesh... Ooh the possabilities... Three hours sleep... delusional armourer...

Can't splle

Dorkknight · Post by **Dorkknight** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 7:40 pm

He's in no way being forced to do this...I said "Hey, what do I have to do to get you into armour and to try the SCA?" He says, "Uh, well, get me working-out and put some meat on me...and don't break me!"

To answer another question, He is not interested in doing rapier combat, as it doesn't appeal to him.

Oh yeah, and he won't be going out east anytime soon...we're Middle Kingdom...we'll be gentle with him

Aelric · Post by **Aelric** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:51 am

Im kinda a stickboy myself at 6' 140 (when I started fighting at 20) and the most Ive broken is ribs and fingers(and a toe but thats a long story). I say staart him off heavily armoured with plate (of whatever material) then let him lighten up as he sees fit. Hes probably not really that fragile save that arm. Hopefully thatll be covered by a shield.

Aelric

mavrikii · Post by **mavrikii** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:46 am

Aelric,

Not all of us put our right arms behind shields

Mav

bela of kaffa · Post by **bela of kaffa** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:11 pm

i'm 5-7, 135#, i fight heavy, and i live in the east...I wear mostly leather...

vertically challanged can be good, you make less of a target in melees...
i'd tell him that his stature is only an issue if he lets it be, and to wear the armour he's interested in, it all feels awkward at first... definately go with steel on the damaged arm, and check to see if a doctor thinks it's a safe idea...
bela

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by schreiber:
First of all, don't take him out east!

Is this something that he's in to, or is it being pressed on him? I ask because if he's that much of a stickboy, the only thing I'd be semi- comfortable seeing him wear is full tailored plate. And I would'nt put him in it if he's not one hundred percent into the idea.

HELMUT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thorkell Kettilsson · Post by **Thorkell Kettilsson** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 2:13 pm

What are you all using for gambesson padding, I have the helm & legs sorted, but undecided on the torso & arms, being yet another stick boy

Like many people have said, breaking is bad, and I want to minimize the risk, but being viking, full plate is a little tricky.

Any sugestions for gambesson padding & arm armour?

Thorkell

Dorkknight · Post by **Dorkknight** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 3:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Thorkell Kettilsson:
What are you all using for gambesson padding, I have the helm & legs sorted, but undecided on the torso & arms, being yet another stick boy

Like many people have said, breaking is bad, and I want to minimize the risk, but being viking, full plate is a little tricky.

Any sugestions for gambesson padding & arm armour?

Thorkell<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have a similar problem...crusaders didn't typically have much for arms and legs aside from the maille. If you're working with maille I'd say that you should hide some leather vambraces and reerbraces (sp) under the maille but over the gambeson. As far as legs go, you could hide your kness under pants. But the elbows...I'm still trying to find a decent solution to that one too. I've just about given-up on the elbows, and will be making some that go outside the maille. There are some great gambeson patterns and ideas around...the one I like is drawing padding through "tubes" in material. Picture this...you sew two pieces of cloth together by way of parallel lines that are an inch apart. take scrap cotton cloth and pull it through these channels you've created. It kinda looks like you're the Michelin Man. FYI Post your question on the board seperate of this discusion so you get more attention...or look back through the archived stuff, if there's one thing I know for sure it's that the group of armourers that are on this site are very helpful. Good luck!

Thorkell Kettilsson · Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:21 pm

I'd like to end up in rivited maille, but I'm kinda thinking if I should make this a goal, and perhaps start with something like a Wisby COP and have my first armour project as the COP, full steel arms & some pauldrons.... atleast it'll thow me in on the deep end with armouring ;-)

Vogeljager · Post by **Vogeljager** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:25 am

Which Arm?
If it is his dominant (sword) arm, a rigid, full vambrace lined with padding should protect him well.
I used to wear a 1/8" plastic vambrace lined with blue foam. I took a few excessive shots across the ulna with no problems, other than almost losing my grip on the sword in my hand.

If it is his Shield arm then his arm will be safe strapped to what is essentially a larger, heavier vambrace.

------------------
Vogeljager
www.angelfire.com/nf/dfowler/

Dorkknight · Post by **Dorkknight** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 4:15 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Vogeljager:
If it is his Shield arm then his arm will be safe strapped to what is essentially a larger, heavier vambrace.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Trust me I thought long and hard about him putting the right one behind a shield...but sadly he's right handed. I even asked him if he'd change his sword hand

but he wasn't so keen on that idea. thanks for the idea with the vambrace thickness, that's more like the advise I need at this point...beter safe than broken, that's what I say!

Wynne · Post by **Wynne** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:11 am

First because of the pre-existing condition, check with his doctor before hand,
"as with any exercise regiment, check with your docter before begining"
No sense taking unnessasary risks.
If he give the OK,Find some sole leather, you know the really thick rigid stuff and then splint it, for the right arm vambrace. You can't be to careful. Around here most fighter pull shots if they see its going to hit an arm, but a shot to the helm the get intercepted by an arm, comes in real hard...
As for the rest of the harness...what ever he wants, I was 5'11" and 130lbs when I started, unlike other aspects of life, in fighting size doesn't raelly matter, (until you get to Sir Gareth's size that is)

My .02
Carson Wynne

------------------
Let Peace be Thy Profession.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/red_tassle/l ... ph&.view=t

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 4:51 pm

Your friend might be comfortable in an arm harness like the one found in Chartres:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/5913/a
rms.html (Scroll down a bit)
It's light weight because it doesn't have large numbers of lames and rivets. It gets great strength from the tulip shape and the integral hinge. I've been able to make it in 18 gague stainless, and it works quite well.
Gaston

Richard Blackmoore · Post by **Richard Blackmoore** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 6:28 pm

14th century plate, stainless or spring steel, with a decent sleeve arming coat underneath.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 8:46 am

If he HAS to fight Norse-style, armor in layers:
-steel/plastic arms
-tunic (hiding arms)
-maille byrnie (short- to 3/4-length sleeves)
as well as whatever body armor he has planned.

How long ago did he break his arm? I'd check with the orthopod who fixed him up before getting too active fighting heavy.

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 10:46 am

My method-
start him off in aluminum, plastic, and leather, and let him fight for about a month at practice, but not compete at any events. After that month, have him wear 16g plate, everywhere, and if he can manage, a maille shirt underneath it. Have him fight this way for about a year. Then, after that year, all of a sudden he is no longer stick boy!

It sure as hell worked for me, I've gained about 30lbs, all muscle. (of course some of that comes from pounding on metal all day) Have him wear the plate as long as he can stand it, I plan on wearing plate for at least another year, and then when he takes the plate off and goes to some kind of steel/leather mix, he will be the god of lightening fast movement, completely unexpected from the guy who used to be the last strageler in the charge across the field.