I Wanna Be An Abyssinian Knight in 1190AD

[David Edwinson]

Well, not me, but a good friend of mine. Here is a bit more specific info:
He was born in the year 1170 C.E. in the rock-hewn church region known as Lalibela, within the highlands of Abyssinia, now Ethiopia.

Anyone??

[David Edwinson]

David are you looking to identify a specific historic person?

I'm not sure I'm getting the idea?

Or Do you wanna be an Ethiopian Knight in 1190AD?

It sounds like a fascinating research area.

Sorry for the confusion. It is for a friend of mine, who's personna is described as being born in the year 1170, etc.
Here is his website:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Du ... simon.html

[amhlaidgh]

Hmm... From your friend's back story, I think he should be dressing as either a basic European Crusader or as a Arab (either as a spy or for safe passage.)

As for Ethiopian armour / clothing in the 12th c. I thought to look at some Ethiopian Orthodox iconography, to get a flavor. It's really not much help. It seems to be very much stylized late roman/byzantine.

[RandallMoffett]

Try a David Nicolle Book called the Source Book for Medieval Warfare. The second volume is the east and includes some regions close to there. I remember something about large shields and bows that sounded like a type of longbow almost, made of NON-COMPOSITE nature. If I remember correctly they were very popular as mercinaries and had a reputation as great fighters, look at them, they kept the egyptian armies out, thats impressive. I like his persona. Sometimes peoples SCA stories are pretty dull but I thought his was well done.
RPM

[Squire Tirharka]

About the same era. I have found Ethiopian frescoes of St. George mounted that are very illuminating. I have decided to make flower colored chain mail (As St. George wears in the picture under his red gambeson) , wear the flower colored gambeson, gorget and Plaid-like cloak over that, along with red leather gloves, vambraces and leggings/boots and the snuck in-bowpads and kneepads. The helm and Armor undercote, required for SCA, I will probably be getting from www.Icefalcon.com, as their work is top knotch IMHO.

I am modeling my helm on the Khuldan of the Mamluks, who had influence in the Abyssinia of that time. The Shield I will have made will not be Hippo or Rhino (I literally cried when the last Rhino in an African reserve had it's horn removed by Poachers) but a simulation hopefully from www.princearmory.com .

It's exotic, but it follows the idea of how colorful the frescoe warriors are, Ethiopian cavalry of the period are NOT Subtle. I'll post when I have the entire suit assembled.

I hope this is helpful, my great respects.

-Squire Tirharka of Shire Cloondara, Principality of Mists, West

[Norman]

Sorry to be a pill but --

That helmet is much later than the 12th century.
14th or more likely 15th

Definitely stay away from the movable nasal
Better off going with a simple bowl or conical

And you are probably best off following the rest of the armour and making a covered helmet
(cloth cover would be most likely to protect the steel from the African heat)

[Squire Tirharka]

Sorry to be a pill but --

That helmet is much later than the 12th century.
14th or more likely 15th

It's the Khaldun of the 14th, the same style worn (with a feather) by the Prophet in the 12th. The Emperor Amouhr was so friendly with the Prophet that Abyssinia was spared the Jihad, so I don't think the closeness violates history. The Zagwe dynasty is also known as the Islamic Influence era of Ethiopia.

Definitely stay away from the movable nasal

Why should I, that's the feature I like best in the Crusader conicals.

Better off going with a simple bowl or conical

Are you saying the small protrusion on top violates SCA rules, or are you talking smoothness for near misses, or what? Be more specific please?

And you are probably best off following the rest of the armour and making a covered helmet(cloth cover would be most likely to protect the steel from the African heat)

Are you suggesting a Armor Cote or Gambeson 'Hoodie?' Interesting ideas. I am really trying to imitate the Ethiopian St. George frescoe with a helm, so I'm not sure we are on the same page. I do appreciate your suggestions. I just realized the other members of this discussion are from 2001.

Last night, as I was cruising for Mamluk helms in the theme, this jewel cropped up on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ARMOR-OTTOMAN-TURKE ... litaria_LE

Man o man, I am sure the head of the Captain that wore this was much smaller than me, a Western Male from large peoples, but boy a guy can dream.

[Squire Tirharka]

Until I can have the Mamluk helm custom made (with SCA cages and such) I will probably run with this;

http://www.armstreet.com/store/armor/tu ... lmet-armor.

There are no surviving Mamluk 11th/12th helmets, so nobody can say I'm inauthentic anyways.

All in all, it's getting exciting as I collate parts...

[Norman]

I just realized the other members of this discussion are from 2001.

Thats okay - in this forum the discussions are supposed to be permanent.

Sorry to be a pill but --
That helmet is much later than the 12th century.
14th or more likely 15th

It's the Khaldun of the 14th, the same style worn (with a feather) by the Prophet in the 12th.

1 - I would love to see documentation of a sliding nasal in the 12th century.
My research indicates that there was no such thing.
2 - I think you are in some way confused or we are talking past each other. If by "the Prophet" you mean Mohammad, he lived in the 7th century.

The Emperor Amouhr was so friendly with the Prophet that Abyssinia was spared the Jihad, so I don't think the closeness violates history. The Zagwe dynasty is also known as the Islamic Influence era of Ethiopia.

While I do not dispute cross polination from Middle Eastern dress to Ethiopia, some of your facts seem to be off.
1 - My understanding is that in the 7th century Abysinia was ruled by very chauvenisticaly Christian "Solomonids" so I severely doubt any friendliness with Mohammad. They were engaged in pretty much permanent war with their Jewish and Muslim neighbors.
2 - Just as a minor issue - it is the Jews (under Queen Gudit) that are accused of putting the Zagwe dynasty on the throne in the 10th century. This, of course, does not negate your general point that the Zagwe were Cosmopolitan - getting along with the Jews and Muslims.

Definitely stay away from the movable nasal

Why should I, that's the feature I like best in the Crusader conicals.

Because all of my research indicates that there was no movable nasal prior to the 14th century.

Better off going with a simple bowl or conical

Are you saying the small protrusion on top violates SCA rules, or are you talking smoothness for near misses, or what? Be more specific please?

I am still mostly on about the nasal -- but the whole form of the helmet is a bit off for 12th century (though without the movable nasal I suppose it would pass a 10 foot rule)

And you are probably best off following the rest of the armour and making a covered helmet(cloth cover would be most likely to protect the steel from the African heat)

Are you suggesting a Armor Cote or Gambeson 'Hoodie?' Interesting ideas. I am really trying to imitate the Ethiopian St. George frescoe with a helm, so I'm not sure we are on the same page. I do appreciate your suggestions.

My though was a simple connical helmet with ear and neck coverage covered with a cloth hat
kinda like this modern one but pointy - and colorful - with colors to match the coat.

I have seen that documented for 11-12 century Egypt which, as you say, is plausible for Ethiopian.
(I just could not find a picture online at the moment)

Until I can have the Mamluk helm custom made (with SCA cages and such) I will probably run with this;
http://www.armstreet.com/store/armor/tu ... lmet-armor

You definitely DON'T want that! That is a very specific helmet style which definitely does NOT apear before the 15th century (and more 16th than 15th)

There are no surviving Mamluk 11th/12th helmets, so nobody can say I'm inauthentic anyways

I'm sorry. Would you wear jeans on that same logic?
Would you wear an Armet with a 11th century Mamluk personna because of that logic?
The helmets you propose have specific characteristics which are not to be found until at least 2 centuries later.
Moreover, the Mongol origins of these helmet characteristics have been discussed.
So - no - they are not possible before the Mongol invasion and then the Westward migration of its influence.

[Norman]

Here
"The armies of Islam, 7th-11th centuries By David Nicolle, Angus McBride"
I don't know how much of the book will show up in the below link but you should at least get the cover.
I was trying to describe the helmet that the foot soldier on the far right on the cover is wearing. But for that matter - the turban setup of the African fellow on the left would match the Ethiopian artwork you show just as well.
http://books.google.com/books?id=SZ7KaG ... &q&f=false

[Squire Tirharka]

The helm you described is not far off from the Ethiopian Cavalry image I showed earlier. Wrapping a helm in cloth sounds like madness to me now (with dry and dusty hot Sacramento weather for our big events.) But I have a water delivery rig to keep under my robes, might work.

Thanks for the sources. Since I have to have a faceplate for the SCA, any suggestions on compatible helms?

[Norman]

Wrapping a helm in cloth sounds like madness to me now (with dry and dusty hot Sacramento weather for our big events.)

Never dealt with this in practice.
My own personna would have been more likely to go shiney steel.
But my impression is that cloth covered armour is specificaly done in Africa and such because the cloth protects the metal from heating up.
The "dry and dusty hot " seems to fit precisely what the African warriors were dealing with.

The helm you described is not far off from the Ethiopian Cavalry image I showed earlier.

BTW - this image looks realy wonky. Especialy the legs. I certainly don't see any relation to the period art you also posted.
What book is this?
If this is all you have, in your place, I would just go with the usual thing most folks do who can't document leg armour - like Vikings and such.
Go with poofy pants and hidden pads under.
Realy - I think your whole outfit would be very similar to the African guy on the left on the front cover of this book
http://books.google.com/books?id=SZ7KaG ... &q&f=false

Thanks for the sources. Since I have to have a faceplate for the SCA, any suggestions on compatible helms?

I don't believe there is much likelyhood of a full-face helmet in this region at this time.
If you go with that African guy as a model, you can always get a standard bargrill and cover it with the veil of the turban.
(that's the other advantage of a cloth cover - you can just get a good, comfy helmet without having to wory about details)
If you like nasals, a simple solid nasal is quite plausible - that would certainly make the grill look nicer.
If you look at the guy on the right in the cover of the following book. He is Spanish, but I'm talking about the simple nasal on the helm not anything else about him. (if you scroll down to page 6, it shows an original 10th century piece of art on which his look is based)
http://books.google.com/books?id=bRh058 ... &q&f=false

[horsefriend]

Squire Tirharka,

You should look up his excellency Merced, I think he is current Baron of Fettburg. He does an early Islamic persona that is the closest thing in your area to what you are looking for.



alail/scott

[Squire Tirharka]

Appreciate the inspiration!

Tirharka!

[Squire Tirharka]

Just an update, after walking around in various SCA events looking like a Merry Man, I finally got my costume fabrics I intend to wear atop the Dark Victory (Plastic) Armor. I saved about 150$ on some really exotic looking fabrics with my wife's expert advice and a veteran's +10% off day. I grabbed a few for a post-fight suit as well.

I have a seamstress at work, I hope to have a picture to show the forum soon.

Horsefriend, I have checked out Fettsburg and Baron Merced on your advice, a friend sent me his way during a Masquerade last year. I always see him wear Brigantine in combat, I like the cut of his jib. My concept has moved a little further back to 800 A.D.at the end of the Axum Dynasty. I hope to discuss fashion with him at West Crown this year, I could only catch Coronet last year and the weather was disappointing.