Helmet year???

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:26 am

Hey all

What year would yall put this fine bascinet i bought from Gregory?

http://yoyofreak.net/forums/index.php?s ... st&id=3311

http://yoyofreak.net/forums/index.php?s ... st&id=3310

Being lazy

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:29 pm

The bascinet itself looks like a fairly nice German Onion top Bascinet. Late 1400's?

The visor is fantasy to my knowledge.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:50 pm

The visor has a moderate historical look, like this piece in Philly, I think it said 1370 on it but I am not sure which country it is from though much in that case is German:

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy/images/visor.jpg[/img]

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:04 pm

I think that particular hat was based on "The Romance of Alexander" made in 1338-1344. Lots of visors in that manuscript that look like that. I'd say that type of visor could be seen from 1330ish-1370-5ish, after which, the pigface takes over almost completely.

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:14 pm

I'd say 2005. :roll:

Sorry, I could not resist. The Philly visor came from Chalcis and is probably Venetian. It is a bit of an odity even for Chalcis as it is more primitive than many of the other visors from that source. It probably was a local product of Negroponte and was probably made after the turn of the 15th century.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 pm

I stand corrected. I mixed up 14th century with 1400s again. :sad:

I was not aware of ANY extant examples of visors that looked like that. I stand corrected again.

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:31 pm

Strongbow has it right. It's a combination of several helmets shown in the RoA, It's mad for SCA use though so the visor is elongated and the skull is much deeper than the manuscript exemptars. Greg intended to mount an aventail at @ nose level to suggest a shallow helm ending around ear level.

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:18 pm

Some of the bascinets in the ROA are the shallower type, but some are pretty deep. Just FYI. I have some pics on my other 'puter... I'll try to post them later.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:23 pm

The Philly visor came from Chalcis and is probably Venetian.

Doug, how much 14th/early 15th century material does Philly have on display? I've never been there and I'd love to pay a visit if it has enough stuff up my alley.

Nick

Tailoress · Post by **Tailoress** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:58 pm

Not so much compared to the 16thc stuff there, but there's a decent hounskul from the late 14th with somewhat later modifications (according to Pierre Terjanian, one of the A&A curators there). I'm not recalling details at all right now, but the armour collection is definitely worth a visit. Put it this way: a lot more bang for your buck (IMO) than the Chicago Art Institute.

-Tasha

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:05 pm

Thanx. I'll put it on the medium-term list of places to go before (and if) Zil and I move back to California next year.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:35 am

Indeed, I'd hoped to use it for SCA, but didn't have the funds pouring in to finish the kit! It was going to be 1340's. The Romance was the main influence for this piece, and I did not bother researching any real visors in the process, although I can't speak for Dave.

The site that those images are hosted by is down right now, so if anyone is interested in still viewing the helmet, I've attached one of the better images to this post.

Cheers, and I hope some good comes of it, Murdock!

Strongbow, if you come in, do you think you could attach some images from the Romance again, for Murdock to look over? I'm not sure if he's seen them since he made the purchase. It'd probably be helpful! Thanks!

-Gregory-

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Klaus the Red wrote:
The Philly visor came from Chalcis and is probably Venetian.

Doug, how much 14th/early 15th century material does Philly have on display? I've never been there and I'd love to pay a visit if it has enough stuff up my alley.

Nick

There is very little 14thC stuff available anywhere, to view. It simply did not survive in quantity. The later into the 15thC you get, the more stuff is available, since the scale of production increased so much.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:26 am

Yes, I am sadly aware of this. I consider two or three pieces of fragmentary 14th century harness in one American museum "a lot."

K