Sneak peek at new helm kit (large download)

Zweihammer · Post by **Zweihammer** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:55 am

Greetings All,
Here is a sneak preview of a Valsgarde 6 inspired helm kit I will be offering later this month. These are pictures of the development prototype large size being modeled by my 5-year-old son. The helm was chosen as a style as it requires no complex shaping and is entirely riveted construction. I assembled this one in around 5 hours, most all of that time was peening rivets. The idea was an SCA list legal helm that could be assembled with no special tools, inexpensively offering an alternative to spun top starter helms.
The kit will include the pieces laser cut with all the holes, and the rivets to assemble. I only need to do the tutorial before I can offer the kits for sale. The kits will be offered in 4 sizes, Large for 23.5 to 24.5 heads, Medium for 22.5 to 23.5 heads, Small for 21.5 to 22.5 heads and X Small for 20.5 to 21.5 heads. The kits will be offered in 12 ga mild steel for the Large and Medium, and Small as well as 14 ga mild steel for the Medium, Small, and X Small.
I have talked about this for years, but it took a need to supply inexpensive helms for youth and adult fighters of DeGrendelus Medieval Martial Arts School to get me off my proverbial behind. We are doing a workshop this next week to assemble the first few of these, I look forward to seeing how the students as well as some of their parent fare, it will give me good feedback.
I have about half of the first 40 kits already spoken for, including more than a couple father/son and father/daughter combos, I think that should be neat. Depending on the initial response will determine if I try to cut more before January.
I will have more details in a week or so.
Cheers, Erick Davidson [img]http://www.photodump.com/direct/Zweiham ... w01web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.photodump.com/direct/Zweiham ... w02web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.photodump.com/direct/Zweiham ... w03web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.photodump.com/direct/Zweiham ... w04web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.photodump.com/direct/Zweiham ... w05web.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.photodump.com/direct/Zweiham ... w10web.jpg[/img]
P.S. sorry to those on dial up

Ugo · Post by **Ugo** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:03 am

yesssssss, we likes it....

Cuanto cuesta?

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:36 am

Ã‚Â¡Ã‚Â¡Ã‚ÂHoly Guacamole!! Now that has style! You've just whipped up a whole new recipe for armourcake. If this thing takes off among the early-periodistas (yes, that is indeed a groaner of a misuse of the word periodista, but I seem to be in a Spanish-oid mode at the moment

) I predict a whole lot of brainfreeze at the next few Pennsics...

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:53 am

Yes they are nice.
Bravo.

Hal

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:26 am

Very nice indeed. How thick are the slats and the grill?
RPM

VRIN · Post by **VRIN** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:09 am

killer! that face grill is a great kit type solution. I just built one of these and posted the pics on another thread. I have to say I like your face coverage solution better than the bar grill I eventually put on the one I built.

You'll make a mint!

V

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:52 am

Hell yes! I've got a newbie in town who is sort on funds but long on skill looking for a helm like this. And if she dosn't want it I'll keep it for myself.

Whats the cost for a size large in 12ga? How much for shipping to Pennsylvania (19320)?

Sean

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:35 pm

Add me to the waiting list... that's cool.

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:34 pm

Looks very good.

I personaly would think that a lot of the rivets might look better if they were replaced with countersunk/blind rivets. Namely those around the face opening for the bar work, and perhaps those that join the lower part of the straps.

Also, it does not look like the lower face opening/bar conects to the nasal at all, and it may be benificial if it did.

I'd be interested in finished weights, and hearing how well they hold up. There is a lot of open space and skinny little bands. I would think you might want to reconsider in cutting in 10 and 12 gauge rather than 12 and 14. On the other hand, the curvature and creasing might well be enough to make them hold up very well.

Over all, this is a LOT better than a spun dome ugly. Just a quick look at it puts the tool list at ball peen hammer, sand bag, vice. With a good set of instructions, similar to your gauntlets, it should be pretty easy to put together.

I doubt I'd be interested in getting one for myself at all, but would be interested to hear your prices.

Broadway · Post by **Broadway** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:48 pm

I would like to call dibs on the prototype... how much? Or is it taken?

marcidius · Post by **marcidius** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:16 pm

Trying to earn bonus points using a child as a model, for shame (on me, for not thinking of it first.)

Very nice... I like the purple, it goes well with the dark colouration of the metal. The occulars, nasal, and "beard" all look effing (no offense to effingham) brilliant!

I'm interested in a final weight, and price...

Very visually impressive, and well presented

-Gideon

Vasilii · Post by **Vasilii** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:44 pm

I can't see the pics

Eric Bjornsson · Post by **Eric Bjornsson** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:46 pm

Erick,

I think you need to roll all the edges.

Eric

Ugo · Post by **Ugo** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:07 pm

Uh... my lord....heh, sniff...uh it needs more

COWBELL!!!

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:59 pm

I got a fever, and the only prescription is... MORE COWBELL!

We now return you to you randomly derailed thread.

T. Finkas · Post by **T. Finkas** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:16 pm

Nice face grill. Reminds me of the one I helped Halberds design.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:14 am

Thank you Timothy,

Your designs did a lot for my Plasma cut face.
The photo shop guys really came thru in a pinch.
I appreciate the support.

Hal

Zweihammer · Post by **Zweihammer** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:47 am

Greetings All,
Thank you for the positive response. I am looking right now to see what will be left over after this weekend before I commit to letting any of these first run go. I have been working on this design for a good while and I have been balancing function, form, cost and complicity to the rules of the SCA list as they are the most likely to wish such a kit. The concessions for safety are foremost, and the mouth guard was the hardest to finish as I abhor bar grills and dressing them up to make them less sports equipment like usually just draws attention to them. The rule about interior attachment is open to interpretation and in place to allow marshals to bounce shoddy design and workmanship. I am still cosidering adding one more attachment point beneath the nasal to the top of the mouth gaurd or an increase in gauge, though that is why I made the section as wide as it is, very stout. Finally I designed it in such a way that it can be put on from the outside, though the whole helm is constucted working from the bands inward. I encourage those of you interested to show the pictures of the prototype to your local marshallete, if you are not a marshal yourself, to avoid any hassles. I have followed those rules of construction that have ridgid definition as well as a refusal to offer the kit in 16 ga, though technically that is legal, I consider any helm made in 16 unfit to be struck. Even those intended for children or boffer only. I am considering offering this for boffer in aluminum so it would never pass inspection for anything else, because you never know who will inherit these a few years from now.
As far as price I considered different prices for different gauges or sizes, but the cost to cut is identical, the material is so close to the same that in the interest of simplicity they will all cost the same. I may offer it in stainless in the next month or so and that will come with a premium, but for now the kit will be $75 and as it fits easily into a flat rate box from the post office, shipping to anywhere in the US will be $7.70 ( though I can still ship UPS if you would like to track it, for whatever that would cost ). So any kit could be $82.70 to anywhere in the US.
I will not be ready to offer any until after my intial commitment is met and I do a construction tutorial as I did for the gauntlet kit, so it will be a couple of weeks.
Once again, thank you for the postive response and the constructive critisism, I will keep everyone abreast of developments.
Cheers, Erick Davidson

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:31 am

ok... so does that mean we CAN buy a kit now or not?

turmschlager · Post by **turmschlager** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:13 am

Where do we place orders????

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:02 am

put me on the waiting list.

BTW, if it is not made of 16ga. What IS is made of?

Also, can you make parts in Brass? I would be willing to pay extra.

Zweihammer · Post by **Zweihammer** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:57 am

Greetings All-
To clarify, I will be selling these but an unknown quantity are already spoken for as the upcoming workshop I am doing with Degrendlus Medieval Martial Arts has first priority of what is available. I am making arrangments to cut more, but with out them in my hands I do not like to sell what I don't already possess.
The sizing includes room for at least a half inch of padding on the high end of the scale and a bit more on the low end. I have a 24 inch brow and the large shown fits me with three qurters of an inch of padding perfectly. As far as the smaller sizes, I am going on math. Should they prove otherwise I will amend the description.
Cheers, Erick Davidson

Fenrix · Post by **Fenrix** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:20 am

Wait a moment, stop the presses!...er um, CNC machines!

This is such a great helm I hate to point out the one error that you made. This helm is massivly over sized! I mean, look at the one on your model, only a giant could wear that =P

Seriously, that looks great! I have no need for it (well I don't need another spangle helm) but I am seriously thinking about ordering one out of stainless if that is ever and option.

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:55 am

Zweihammer wrote:...I have followed those rules of construction that have ridgid definition as well as a refusal to offer the kit in 16 ga, though technically that is legal, I consider any helm made in 16 unfit to be struck. Even those intended for children or boffer only. I am considering offering this for boffer in aluminum so it would never pass inspection for anything else, because you never know who will inherit these a few years from now.

Have you considered a children's version in 18 gauge with a different faceplate using much larger openings? Boffer helms don't need to meet the 1" standard, and the visual difference would keep it from passing as an adult combat helm.

I would love for something to replace the ugly street-hockey helms currently used for youth boffer combat.

Ld Thomas Willoughby · Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:13 pm

I'm very interested as well as a few of our newbies. Please put me on your list of hopefulls.

Eyvandr · Post by **Eyvandr** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:23 pm

Erich... I want one... *grin*

Just so you all know, I wear one of Erich's helms daily. If this thing is anything like it, its gonna be heavy and super solid. More importantly it will last forever.

I love the slats man. Some very nice improvments.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:51 pm

I handled this helm Saturday. It looks good and is pretty stout.

Erick,

I have two suggestions, one for the design and one for the directions. For the design, as you mentioned above, I also think that the mouth covering needs an upper attachment point. I suggest either a single tab connecting to the nasal or a pair of tabs outwards to either side. For your assembly directions I suggest that you remind people to file the edges to debur them. When I was handling the helm, my hands kept telling me that the edges of the pieces still had sharp 90 degree corners from the laser cutting. A quick dressing with a file, belt sander, or even a deburring tool would clean these up. I'm not suggesting that you do it, since that would increase your production time and thus cost, but it is something that should be mentioned as one of the first steps in your assembly directions.

Other than those two suggestions, of which only one is a design critique, the helm was great. I really liked the treatment on the bottoms of the slats.

Guys, this really is a nice looking helm.

- Scott

Thorbjorn · Post by **Thorbjorn** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:31 am

I just might be able to talk the missus into letting me make some serious noise in the garage with this kit.

Erick, put me on The List for sure.

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:18 am

Very nice helm kit to offer. It will certainly improve the look on the SCA combat field.

I do have one suggestion.... Given the thread a short time back on noggin size, there were A LOT of larger heads than 24.5 in. I have noticed, in my SCA experience, that many of the people playing the persona from that time period and area...are of the larger size. You might consider an X-large size as well...

Gorgeous piece...love the grill alternative.

Hensojin · Post by **Hensojin** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:17 pm

WOW!!!
Very interested!

Will you ship in Canada?

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:22 pm

Zweihammer wrote: The rule about interior attachment is open to interpretation and in place to allow marshals to bounce shoddy design and workmanship. I am still cosidering adding one more attachment point beneath the nasal to the top of the mouth gaurd or an increase in gauge, though that is why I made the section as wide as it is, very stout. Finally I designed it in such a way that it can be put on from the outside, though the whole helm is constucted working from the bands inward.

As someone authorized to marshall, as an armorer, and as a fighter, I've always thought that this was one of the stupidest rules that we have. I fully understand the intent, and appreciate the concern for safety... but... it is worded piss poorly.

Technicly, a marshal could (and at some point someone probably will) try to bounce one of your helms made from this kit, based on the fact that the grill is attatched to the inside.

Nevermind the fact that the entire rest of the helm is constructed in the same way.

The cynical misanthrope in me almost wants to make 2 of these, one with the grill on the inside, and one with it on the out... then try to see if I can't get the first bounced, and the second passed by the same marshal.

Blackoak · Post by **Blackoak** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:33 pm

I would definitely be interested in one of these. I would also be interested in an aluminum or lighter guage steel for my son. Preferably the aluminum.

Will any of the pieces come pre-rolled?

Uric

igelkott · Post by **igelkott** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:29 pm

You can include me as one who'd be interested in X-large. I have a 25 inch head.

This would be really cool to have one for me and one for my son.....

It looks like we'd have to do the curving and the creasing. Will this be included in the instructions? I don't have much metal working experience, but I have done rivetting.

Chris

Woodstock · Post by **Woodstock** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:54 am

Not to highjack the thread, but I would be interested in your gauntlet kits AND one of these when available...

New York Chris · Post by **New York Chris** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:22 pm

Looks great man, Pm sent to ya. Cant wait till you are ready to ship.

Blackoak, I believe the kit is shipped flat just like his gauntlet kits.

Sneak peek at new helm kit (large download)

Sneak peek at new helm kit (large download)

You're evil...