o what to do, what to buy

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:52 pm

for once i have some cash to spend, but i'm pulled in too many directions to think clearly hehehe i need some advice, or guidence from my fellow AAers on some articles for certain ktis i need.

roman:
pugio, pilum, scutum

15thc:
milanese or like gauntlets, italian export or coventry sallet

11thc norman:
dress sword

now for now i have a 300 budget, might have more after sat. i know i cant get them all, but i'd like to think i could get 1 or 2 things checked off of here. got any good leeds or links to help me out?

Blackoak · Post by **Blackoak** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:03 pm

For the sword I would try to get a Paul Binns sword. Top notch and you can use it for LH or dress for SCA. I think it's Viking Shield that is the US store that has his stuff. Just a thought.

As far as gauntlets, there are a lot of goo guys on here that do them.

Uric

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:43 pm

Since you specify a "dress" sword I'm assuming you don't want an obvious blunted reenactment prop?

Given your stated budget you might want to consider this new one by Museum Replicas.
[img]http://www.museumreplicas.com/imagelib/0500864_D_000.jpg[/img]
Price: $195.00

They're calling this their Ulfberht Sword. Looks like it might be just the thing.
I'd forget about all of that other fru-fru and go with the Norman interp. but that's just me. :wink:

Primvs Pavlvs · Post by **Primvs Pavlvs** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:51 pm

Wolf with that 300 you can kill all your Roman "want" list. :wink:

JesseB · Post by **JesseB** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:31 pm

Wolf ,go with what Patrick said if you just want to do LH with it. but why not kill two birds with one stone and go with a Paul Binn's, mine look's almost just like the one patrick pictured but can also be used for( live steel) I only paid a little more than that (I think it was around 280.00 with shipping. and you for shure only want to do Norman :lol:

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:45 pm

but i already have a paul binns

so you think that MRL sword is a good LH quality sword? or is my binns proper enough?

hehehe what to do what to do

Thomas H · Post by **Thomas H** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:52 pm

get the export sallet, do it!.

JesseB · Post by **JesseB** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:40 pm

If you don't get a Paul binns get a Albion. The reeve is soooooo cool

Matthew Amt · Post by **Matthew Amt** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:22 pm

Get a nice bronze sword from Neil Burridge or Bronze Age Foundry, and you'll still have some money left for clothes to go with it. Muahahahaaaa....

Matthew

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:48 pm

Buy a nice prezzie for a friend.

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:51 pm

JesseB wrote: The reeve is soooooo cool

Yes it is.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:04 pm

Wolf

Jesse is 'da man' when it comes to what you all (CF) do so listen to him over me BUT.........

IMO, go for the 'prop'
"Interpretation" pieces are ok if you are farting around with "one-ing and two-ing it" but your "one of us" know.

You will be put into situation where you might be on the field with anywhere from a dozen to around thousands, in the case of Hastings (the Mecca for 'Us') of folks. That 'prop' will come in pretty handy then:)

Also keep in mind that a well made and well done 'prop' can be just as expensive and well made as any Albion. My custom longsaex with silver inlay on the pommel and quillion ran me $400. A custom hand sewn and tooled scabbard will cost even more. Add onto that a silver throat and chepe and you have quite an investment, THAT IS USEABLE!

Sounds expensive but if done over time its not bad considering you get to swing it at your friends and look the part of a nobleman while doing so:)

Halv

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:11 pm

Wolf,

In the end I think you need to prioritize your choice. If you need a piece to serve as a catch-all than something like a Binns would be the way to go. However, if you're looking for a 'living history' piece then something like a Binns shouldn't be a consideration. As a reenactment tool it lacks the fine points that make a sword a sword, as such it won't serve as an appropriate example of a medieval sword in a living history environment.

So if it's meant to be a jack-of-all trades thing than I'd go for the Binns as they're the best I've seen of that type of tool. If you're looking for something a bit more 'accurate' for an LH presentation, a Del Tin 2133 would be the minimum, with the Albion Reeve or Bayeux as a higher-end choice.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:41 am

Patrick Kelly wrote:Wolf,

As a reenactment tool....... .

--useable item

If you're looking for something a bit more 'accurate' for an LH presentation, a Del Tin 2133 would be the minimum, with the Albion Reeve or Bayeux as a higher-end choice.

--wall hanger

I know which I'd rather spend $400 on

Halv

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:51 am

Halvgrim wrote:I know which I'd rather spend $400 on

Yes, as you've written it in plain english more than once I'm sure everyone knows what you mean. However, if we're going to engage in a contest of "If I repeat myself enough people will agree with me." then I'll follow suit.

'Useable' v. 'Wallhanger'

It all depends on the context in which Wolf wants to 'use' this sword. If he wants something he can use in a semi-contact, grown-up version of 'let's pretend' then a blunt is the way to go. However, since he did specify a "dress" sword in his initial post he may have other uses for the piece, uses that may be just as valid as yours.

If he wants to use the sword in an LH presentation for a community or civic group, or a local school then he needs something that will more accurately represent a sword from the period, rather than an obviously blunt and rebated reenactment tool. (which I believe he stated he already had)

You've made it perfectly clear where your choice is. Where Wolf puts his priorities will influence his choice.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:57 am

However, if we're going to engage in a contest of "If I repeat myself enough people will agree with me." then I'll follow suit.

---Tell ya what
I'll shut up when you do?
Is that fair?

Halv

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:46 pm

Halvgrim wrote:---Tell ya what
I'll shut up when you do?
Is that fair?

Halv

Sure, as long as I get the last word. :wink:

No harm meant.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:14 pm

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Sure, as long as I get the last word.

--Ok, you can have it, right after this! :twisted:

This whole debate got me thinking
They whole +ULFBERHT+ thing sounded WAY to "Viking" to be Norman so I got to looking.
I went to my new obtained copy of Swords of the Viking Age and quickly found the answer I was looking for.

There are in fact between 30 and 40 of these "+VLFBERTH+" swords in existence.......

IN FINLAND.......

FROM THE 9th-10th CENTURY

There is an "+VLFBERTH+" blade in Norway as well, from the 10th C

There are two similar blades that bears the "+VLFBERTH+" inscription that were found in Ireland as well (one was in a drainage ditch) one is dated to the 9th century, the other to the 10th C

There is also a 9th century blade from Ireland that bears the inscription HARTOIFA

There is also a Petersen type H (late 9th early 10th) from Finland that says INGELRII (the N is backwards)

A tenth C sword from Kent MAY bear the same inscription

That said Viking to Crusader does show a sword (Trilobe pommel) from the 10th - 11th century with 'writing' on it

IT SAY CEROLT

And is from a male burial IN RUSSIA (though it might be of Rhenish origin)

There is also a 10th C blade from England that bears the inscription +LEUTLRLL

OK, now I am bored but I beleive I have made my point, none of these are real Norman eh?

So IF one was to get one of these MR blades as a NORMAN LH piece, you might want to have these facts available when someone asks how CORRECT your sword would be.

So in truth, this 'Norman' sword is about as correct as the blunt prop for Norman LH.

OK, NOW you can have the last word.

Halv

EDITED MUCH LATER to add that I have found a few late 10th-mid11th C swords that do bear inscriptions and MIGHT be considered Norman but none that bear the inscription "+VLFBERTH+"

EDITED YET AGAIN because I have infact found an 11th C "Norman" sword with the inscription "+VLFBERTH+" on it.

Im willing to bet since the large percentage of these blades are found earlier that this is a refitted blade (or an attempt to replicate the 'line')

Regardless, I am willing to admit when I am wrong so I am doing so for god and everyone to see

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:47 pm

All very good points Halv.

However.......................... :lol:

Wolf didn't ask "What is the best sword I can buy as a "dress" sword." Since Wolf himself limited the choice by stating a maximum price point that particular sword fell into that category and as such merited consideration. Would I use it? No. Do I think it's accurate? No. Which is exactly what I told Wolf via PM when he asked. However, his stated price point puts most of the swords I would choose out of his range. Simply saying "forget about all that and do what I do...." really isn't productive or helpful when a specific question is asked. Unlike some I'm not trying to make his choice for him but rather trying to provide options.

Which is why I stated this previously......................

If you're looking for something a bit more 'accurate' for an LH presentation, a Del Tin 2133 would be the minimum, with the Albion Reeve or Bayeux as a higher-end choice.

Unlike some, apparently, I'm not narrow-minded enough to think that everyone in this hobby has desires and priorities that mirror my own. As such, when people ask for assistance they need to be provided with as much objective information as possible.

Then again, he may go with some of that sissy roman stuff so it may all be academic. :shock:

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:55 pm

Ah, I see

Youd rather suggest something 'within his price range' but totally wrong, and then wrinkle your nose when suggesting a prop?

Gotcha

No need to reply

As for objective, I dont care what Wolf buys and he knows it
But as he ACTUALLY INTERACTS with others in his choosen hobby, Id like to see him get something he can actually use vs just stare at.

Wolf, ol boy, ignore all of us assholes and do what you heart tells you is best

Halv

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:30 pm

No need to reply

Allow me to decide that. You're the one who suggested shutting up, not me.

Youd rather suggest something 'within his price range' but totally wrong, and then wrinkle your nose when suggesting a prop?

I'm not suggesting anything of a sort, in fact, I've made it pretty clear what my personal suggestions would be. You're the one who's hanging onto that in some attempt to keep this argument going in a circle. My entire point has been that Wolf needs to decide for himself what his priorities are and make a purchase accordingly. I'm simply throwing out options and letting Wolf make the decision.

As for objective, I dont care what Wolf buys and he knows it

Neither do I.

But as he ACTUALLY INTERACTS with others in his choosen hobby, Id like to see him get something he can actually use vs just stare at.

I'll ignore the first part of that juvenile attempt at a slur. The latter part is, once again, your priority. Only Wolf can decide his on any purchase.

Wolf, ol boy, ignore all of us assholes and do what you heart tells you is best

Probably your best advice so far.

Halvgrimr · Post by **Halvgrimr** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:34 pm

Cant stand that last word thing huh?
Me either

So I chose......Babbleberries!

Halv

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:08 pm

hey u guys, gimme back my thread hahahahaha

you both have been very helpful. BOTH. now shake hands and play nice... I SAID PLAY NICE heheheheh

as to what to do. i've got an email in of 5 different del tin models.
i have a nice lutel and paul binns for beaters.
i wanted something for norman LH encampments with public to show them etc. ie conroi rules state you have to have a beater and a living history style sword... emphasis on the LH sword first then the beater. (but i already had my beater before i joined

i am also thinking of a brass beaded pugio and a roman quarter master pila (pilum) for my roman reenactment. both are LEgio XX and LEgio XIIII aproved items. i will prob get the pugio anyways...

so as soon as i get word form jim, i'll be buying some goodies.

sorry to cause such a mess

i was having fun reading though hehehe

JesseB · Post by **JesseB** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:37 pm

Hey Wolf another reason for going with Paul binns is that he makes some nice "real swords and knifes also" my seax is a pattern welded sharp that
I use for living history events. so he could do you a custom Norman sword thats a sharp and have the hilt made just like you want it for a very good price. a lot of people think that he makes just reenactment blunts but he makes some nice "real "stuff as well.

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:12 pm

Halvgrim wrote:So I chose......Babbleberries!

Supercalafragalisticexpialadotious.

Mine has more letters. :lol:

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:25 pm

JesseB wrote:Hey Wolf another reason for going with Paul binns is that he makes some nice "real swords and knifes also" my seax is a pattern welded sharp that
I use for living history events. so he could do you a custom Norman sword thats a sharp and have the hilt made just like you want it for a very good price. a lot of people think that he makes just reenactment blunts but he makes some nice "real "stuff as well.

I particularly like that pattern-welded spear head pictured on his website. There aren't enough people making things like that.

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:40 pm

From an outside perspective, save the money. If you are looking for a good sword go with the Albion. I also salavate looking at the Reeve, and have been saving for one for six months.
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-reeve-x.htm It's well worth the saving for it.

Also, I really like the pictures. I am currently creating a Norman harness for fighting in the SCA, and I find the pictures inspiring.

I also vote for you choosing going Norman! :twisted:

Patrick Kelly · Post by **Patrick Kelly** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:06 am

Leo Medii wrote:From an outside perspective, save the money. If you are looking for a good sword go with the Albion. I also salavate looking at the Reeve, and have been saving for one for six months.
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-reeve-x.htm It's well worth the saving for it.

Also, I really like the pictures. I am currently creating a Norman harness for fighting in the SCA, and I find the pictures inspiring.

I also vote for you choosing going Norman!

Thanks on the pics.

The Reeve really is a very nice sword. For such an austere sword it really has a big "cool" factor. Oakeshott's Type X blade coupled with a brazil nut pommel has always been, in my mind at least, one of the classic designs of the early medieval period. Still, Albion's Senlac is another one that really interests me. It looks like it jumped right out of the Bayeux Tapestry and if I hadn't already bought the Reeve I may have chose the Senlac instead.