Suggestions for Safe Tent Lighting

[apolloniavoss]

So my new double-belled wedge tent and fly arrived yesterday.

Naturally, I'm looking at "what's next." What's next includes some breakdown boxes to hide coolers and some sort of safe, period looking lighting.

Can anyone suggest a source for premade luminaries? Should I be looking at lanterns with candles, hanging chandeliers, candles in iron holders, oil lamps....?

Practical, safe and attractive suggestions will be taken.

I could make something instead of purchasing, but it woudn't be in time for Pennsic. The breakdown boxes and the interior pole redesign are for this year.

[Cet]

I believe Master Arab Boy makes olive oil lamps: http://www.historicalglassworks.com/images/images.html

And HE/Blackswan has lanterns and ceramic oil lamps

[William of Otterton]

Ok, it's not wildly accurate, but these are safe alternatives.

Late last season, I obtained two LED wax "candles". These two little gems look and smell like real candles but have small LED lights inside that twinkle and shimmer and look quite real but without the flame. These two candles gave off enough light at night to nicely illuminate my small (and now retired) 7' nylon dome tent. I haven't tried them in the new A-frame that just showed up this week but I figure the effect will be good enough. I even had someone warn me that I shouldn't be leaving "candles" burning in my tent while it was unattended - until I went and showed them that they were 100% safe.

This is the one that I have are: http://www.smarthome.com/4640.html

The vendor was quick and efficient to deal with as well. No problems at all even coming across the border.

They're wildly safe and don't look at all out of place except under close interrogation. I've even used them the odd time since for "flame free" feast SCA tables.

GdS

[Finnacan]

Ya know, that Historic Enterprises horn paned lantern (lanthorn, naturally) would be cool to the touch and safe yet look just fine with a couple of yellow glowsticks in it. Not as romantic, but safe and practical for inside the pavilion. The glowsticks glow for about 8 hours so they could be hidden in a thick black bag when it's bedtime, and used in the lanthorn for toilet visits in the night.

An empty camp with glowstick-lit lanthorns illuminating it would pleasantly surprise any fire marshal wandering by later.
Granted, this only works with horn panes, which are not clear and hide the true nature of the light within. It would look super tacky in a glass lantern.

[Alexander]

Servus!

You might try the following:

http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/chandeliers.html

The light devices themselves are non-period as all get out but are really easy to hide in a period covering or lantern. The paraffin does not smoke, smell funny (like olive oil does) or present a major fire hazard. The light is a bit weak but multiple lamps create a nice ambiance inside a tent and the lamps work well in lanterns.

[Robert of Canterbury]

Speaking as someone who has dropped and spilled one of the greydragon parraffin lamps over his bedding, whilst it was still alight, i will vouch for the extraordinary cleverness of the design. No insta-fireball or other annoyances, it's something to do with the neccessity for wicking or somesuch...

And once they are in a hub chandelier, you dont see them, only the light they provide..

As shown here,

http://www.greydragon.org/pavilions/pavilino1.html

[Kit Houston]

What is the problem with candles?

Yes i understand its fire but lots of people seem to have a 'Safety' issue with them.

Does the adverage person not know how to use them anymore?

Id suggest , candles, oil lamps, hanning or free standing. Make sure you set them up right and blow them out when you leave your tent.

Fake light will always be fake light.

kit

[Alexander]

Servus!

What is the problem with candles?

Hot wax spilling on you from the chandelier, tendency to stay lit when knocked over, soot, smell, sputtering, single use only, highly interesting to drunks who like to play with them, kids who don't know better and knock them over when running around the tent, ability to burn down completely and set whatever they are sitting on in flames, melt in the shed during storage, melt in the box during transport, open flames not allowed in certian situations. longevity, non-refillable, etc.

Yes I understand its fire but lots of people seem to have a 'Safety' issue with them.

That's the issue. Please refer to Robert's post of "I was dumb and knocked over the oil lamp" and replace the parrafin lamp with a standard oil lamp.

I'd suggest candles, oil lamps, hanging or free standing. Make sure you set them up right and blow them out when you leave your tent.

I think that Coleman-style fuel lamps (and their battery-powered ilk) should be banned from events altogether. Candles are great, don't get me wrong - nothing adds to the ambiance like candles at the table or a candle lamp to read by!. I just don't like them as a safe and economical way to create area light in a tent.

*Edited to correct a untrue statement.

[Kit Houston]

Hot wax spilling on you from the chandelier, tendency to stay lit when knocked over, soot, smell, sputtering, single use only, highly interesting to drunks who like to play with them, kids who don't know better and knock them over when running around the tent, ability to burn down completely and set whatever they are sitting on in flames, melt in the shed during storage, melt in the box during transport, open flames not allowed in certian situations. longevity, non-refillable, etc.

yes i understand this, but that is how it was and how it should be recreated.

[Alexander]

yes i understand this, but that is how it was and how it should be recreated.

I'm not advocating "fake light" - the fire from the paraffin lamps is the same kind fo fire that is used in candles.

Chamber pots are period as well but I would rather there be a Port-A-Loo on site for everyone to use.

[Robert of Canterbury]

yes i understand this, but that is how it was and how it should be recreated.

Thread title.. Suggestions for Safe Tent Lighting

I understand your desire for greater authenticity Kit, but sometimes folks are prepared to compromise. The Parrafin lamps are discrete, and much much safer than candles..

..tendency to stay lit when knocked over

Tent fires are authentic too, but I'd rather not recreate to that level, my bank account wont stand it.

[InsaneIrish]

What I plan on doing is NOT PERIOD but has a non modern feel and since I am VERY skidish about open flames I feel fairly safe using these. My Knight has used a similar lantern for many years with no ill effect:

http://www.y2klanterns.com/html/varieties.html

they have many different styles, the ones I am looking at are:
The miners lamp and hurricane lanterns. I believe them to be better made than the ones you get at walmart and aren't painted red or white.

It has become increasingly hard for me to see at night when at events, so the added light these put out is welcome.

[Guy Dawkins]

We use tea lights. You can remove them from the tin cup they come in. We have them in glass votive cups with in glass paneled lanterns.

Tea lights last about 8 hours.

If a lantern were to fall and shatter there would be a bigger issue with broken glass than a fire.

We usually don't have the lantern lit in the tent very long. Just enough time to get ready for bed.

[Robert of Canterbury]

I hate to seem like I'm harping on, but for lanterns,

http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/lanterns/index.html

Again, Safe, simple, non glaring to the eye, and practical.

[Thomas Powers]

We're under a complete burn ban---not just the site owners *everyone*! On public land it's ilegal to smoke outside of your car---something to do with single digit humidities and less than 1/4" of precipitation for over 6 months now...Shoot I can't even bring a solid fuel forge to most places.

So I'm working on a parchment (actually some 100% vegetable drafting "vellum") paned holder for a battery powered camping lantern---easier on the eyes and I hope to colour the parchement to help shift the output more toward "natural" sources.

Thomas

[Glen K]

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[InsaneIrish]

So I'm working on a parchment (actually some 100% vegetable drafting "vellum") paned holder for a battery powered camping lantern---easier on the eyes and I hope to colour the parchement to help shift the output more toward "natural" sources.

Thomas

Back when Bohemod sold at events he had his merchant tent lit with kerosene camp lanterns. he did something very similar making them look like chinese rice paper lamps from the outside. Not only did it difuse the "glare" from the lights but made the lanterns hidden unless you looked right under one. Pretty good idea.

[InsaneIrish]

... A single candle, in a single lantern, hung from a peg in your tent pole, is plenty of light to get situated and bedded down for the night.

Now, here I have to disagree with you. I USED to be able to navigate by one candle, but not anymore. I need more light at night to sucessfully navigate tent and find things in boxes.

Of course like you said comprimise is a slippery slope, and for me as long as I am not hanging battery powered lamps outside my tent where people can see them I see no reason why I can't use them.

[Glen K]

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[MelanieC]

I used a couple of these at Pennsic last year and I wish that they'd come back into stock so I could get a few more. The light generated was soft and amber (not that yucky blue-white from a lot of solar lanters) and the flicker was fairly realistic.

The group I'm camping with has banned open flame so I'll probably grab some of the battery candles that were posted earlier in the thread.

[Malachiuri]

Yep I use $4 railroad lanters at events... because Im lazy and cheap about certain things. Put too much into my armour and home the past few years.

Soon to be replaced by horn paneled candle lanters. Lilies I hope.

[apolloniavoss]

You know, it hadn't even occured to me how a burning ban would influence candle or lamp use. Even Pennsylvania is under a burn ban. Does a burn ban automatically translate into no open flame candle or oil lamp?

I asked for safe suggestions, as I thought that Pennsic bans candle burning inside tents for safety reasons.

Onto another aspect.

Has anyone else found that burning a reasonable number of candles in a closed tent helps "burn off" humidity? Some folks swear by this method of "drying out" the interior a bit, but I'm not 100% conviced that it works.

What I'm likely to be buying.

I'm thinking I'll get an oil lamp or two and a horned covered lantern or two. The later can hold glow sticks if candles are banned outright and I can carry one. The oil lamps will just look great.

What's with "the smell" from burning olive oil? Does it smell like when you cook with it?

[Halvgrimr]

Of course like you said comprimise is a slippery slope, and for me as long as I am not hanging battery powered lamps outside my tent where people can see them .....

--Or on Ships masts?
Where the eventually fall and hit the Royal Girlfriends in the head?

..oops...I digress:)

Halv

[InsaneIrish]

--Or on Ships masts?
Where the eventually fall and hit the Royal Girlfriends in the head?

..oops...I digress:)

Halv

soooo, since Tristram won again does that mean we are going to try for a repeat performance?

[Halvgrimr]

--Or on Ships masts?
Where the eventually fall and hit the Royal Girlfriends in the head?

..oops...I digress:)

Halv

soooo, since Tristram won again does that mean we are going to try for a repeat performance?

--cant say
I wont be at much (if any) of Lilies this year:(

Halv

[Captain Jamie]

What is the problem with candles?

Yes i understand its fire but lots of people seem to have a 'Safety' issue with them.

Does the adverage person not know how to use them anymore?

Id suggest , candles, oil lamps, hanning or free standing. Make sure you set them up right and blow them out when you leave your tent.

Fake light will always be fake light.

kit

Kit would you trust that in a random sampling of ten to twelve thousand people at an event that you are not camped next to the idiot that will burn down not only his tent but yours as well? Pennsic (and several other events) demand close living. The tents are generally not more than 3' apart. In fact in many encampments the tent lines are crossed with the neighbor's. I remember the time I arrived at Pennsic troll to find pictures posted of the latest fire stupidity. A tent and possessions gutted by fire. Apparently it happened early on when there were not a lot of tents nearby to be caught up in the blaze. From the air Pennsic is a tent city. We are lucky that no one has strarted a fire that has spread to other tents. Yet.

I have heard of just this sort of thing happening to other reenactors (mountain man I think). Several people lost their encampments because one person was careless.

Yes candles and other period lights were what was used. Curfew (covering the fire pit) was the period French answer to not burning down the town and it was enforced. Demanding fire discipline for the sake of your neighbors would seem to be exactly as period as open flame.

Your experience may be different but I have noticed that here participants from places with plenty of room to spread out and a low enough population that one can be reasonable sure that everybody is playing with the same set of rules and sensiblities just don't understand why fire rules (or others) exist. Then something stupid happens and they suddenly understand that they can't trust that their neighbors will be responsible anymore.

[Thomas Powers]

What's included in a burn ban is very location specific. For public lands it got pretty intense (smoking only inside your car, etc) but now they have shut down access to the national forests so I guess that translates as a "total" burn ban.

Want some fun? Spend some time calling your friends and seeing if they need to evacuate their house as the fires burn close, watch the glow against the clouds and smell the smoke from 20 miles away...

No campfires, no charcoal fires, instead of giving up all activities until Mother Nature relents, we just grit our teeth and just be happy that we can find ways to carry on.

Glen, I'm happy that you don't have to mess with injectable meds in the dark, it can be a real pain figuring out which one is which and how much a dose you've set---of course sticking yourself with the needle in the dark is the *easy* part. I still treasure going to Real Viking one without a sleeping bag and using an oil lamp carved from soapstone; unfortunately life is different for some folks and can change for anyone almost overnight.

Do your best, stay safe and enjoy! Gather ye rosebuds while ye may!

Thomas

[Glen K]

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[Rev. George]

From the air Pennsic is a tent city. We are lucky that no one has strarted a fire that has spread to other tents. Yet.


this is a pic from a fire during the hajj in mecca 9 years ago. It just as easily could be a pic of pennsic or the like.



Glen-

What's the problem with a klune that looks identical to the real deal from the outside, emits a similar amount of light, is used the same way, but is moderately safer. (the paraffin lamp inside of a lanthorn, for example)? Our ancestors had a real leg up on the whole safety issue. they dealt with flame based light daily, and with less light on a regular basis. we are not accustomed to it. and that can lead to tradgedy. (I'm reminded of the Native american chiefs who, used to open flame lights, blew out thier gaslights and suffocated from the fumes)

-+G

[Glen K]

Everyone:

Sorry I interfered in the thread. Please continue.

[Rev. George]

I dont think you interfered Glen. To be honest, in a lot of ways, this hobby is like a religion, and we all have opinions on what is orthodox or heresy. The purpose of discussion is to illuminate th eopinions of others, perhaps gain insight and solve problems (both technical and dogmatic)

-+G

[Glen K]

I dont think you interfered Glen. etc

You're very kind (as always) Rev, but I think I did. The question was asked in, and all but two responders are in the miliuex of the SCA/Pennsic, specifically setting said encampment up therein. That set of rules and culture is something I know nothing about, and I realize that my comments were misplaced and merely causing ill-will within that particular milieux.

[Maeryk]

Does the adverage person not know how to use them anymore?

Correct.

Couple of suggestions: I use em at Pennsic, the rules be damned.

But be smart about it.

NEVER put any wax candle directly in/on wood. As the wax melts, it can infuse the wood, and become a bloody great torch when the wick burns down. a 29 cent copper pipe cap in the "candle socket" will prevent this.

Better yet, put em in a bucket half filled with sand.. then even if they DO burn down, and play "torch" it's no big deal.. just some hot sand.

I tend to use FULLY enclosed lanterns.. glass all the way around with a top, and a small tea-light or small "emergency candle" in it.. works great, doesn't blow out, doesn't drip.. is "legal". (not an exposed flame)

Railroad lanterns are NOT period, but work GREAT. They are cheap, re-wickable, take safe lamp oil, and don't blow out when you are carrying them with you to go to the loo. At 10 feet they are indistinguishable from other "fire", but arent nearly as blinding as those bedamned evil coleman lanterns.

Maeryk

[Maeryk]

You know, it hadn't even occured to me how a burning ban would influence candle or lamp use. Even Pennsylvania is under a burn ban. Does a burn ban automatically translate into no open flame candle or oil lamp?

Specific parts of PA are under a "no outdoor burning". This means you cannot burn trash, rubbish, brush, leaves, etc.

You can still have cookfires, grills, charcoal grills, ceremonial fires, and lighting.

It is in the PA unified code, if you really want to look it up.. my chiminea and such are "cooking fires". I'm not burning trash.

(And I think anything with a chimney doesn't count as an "outdoor burn" anyway). They just don't want people setting huge piles of leaves and pine boughs on fire in their yards, and starting a brushfire across the street.

M

[Finnacan]

This thread got me thinking.

I know I mentioned the glow-stick lit lanthorns with horn panels to hide the glowsticks, but coleman makes some miniature bright electric lanterns that use no oil or flame at all that might be converted.

I wonder how practical it would be to build or buy a wooden lantern with translucent panels (parchment, horn acrylic panes, painted glass, what have you) that was large enough to completely hold a miniature coleman electric? Granted, it would be a large lantern, a gatehouse or a nautical lantern, but it's still a great option. That would be a lot of light coming from a historic light source that would be free of flame and heat.

Heck, paint your heraldic badge on the panes. Paint the panes like horn. If you don't like the final effect, it can always be converted to take a candle for indoor events.