New fighter looking for good but cheap armor!

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:02 pm

I am in the market for good Armor but also affordable for my first suit, little low on money but hopen to get the whole set in one purches, I saw an ad in the ad section in Armorarchive and this came up http://darkvictory.com/html/catalog.html its $230 and plastic weather or not its leagal is another story and its lightweight. please post I would like some feed back on this.

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:48 pm

Later found out of what this is made of

Our armor is constructed out of polyethylene barrel plastic following the natural curvature of the original barrel form for added strength. All cut edges are heat treated for a finished "no-jag" look and feel. Safer & better. The leather used for shoulder straps is generally no less that 12 oz. leather. This armor is entirely compression rivet free. Failures are rare & easy to fix. Fight all day. This armor is completely strapped. (Other armorers might leave this detail out - how crass!) It is designed for speedy armoring up and down; generally in under 5 minutes. All lacing is 550-lb. test strength poly-sheathed cord. Tough stuff.

Rust proof. Mildew free. Easy to clean. You can even swim in it as it floats! (no itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not coast guard approved)

http://darkvictory.com/html/technical.html is where I found it dur.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:50 pm

You will probably have a lot more luck posting in the Classifieds. I personally dont really like DV (along with several of the people here), and my entire kit, including helm, sword, shield, and armour (that covered quite a bit) was for under 230. And it looked better than the DV stuff. I would advise shopping around and trying to find used armour that would fit you, or check out Stonekeep or Ashcraft Baker (except for helms with AB, there are cheaper ones that dont make as big of a ringing sound). Check around the classifieds, and if you are willing to build stuff yourself, it will drive the cost down a lot. You can get almost a full set of minimum armour out of a hide of leather, and I think Tandy has 15 oz leather (armour grade) on sale for about 80. It will fit you better, look better, and provide a bit more protection. Add a weightlifting belt (not worth the armour leather for the price of normal belts), a couple of cheap tunics, and a helm for around 100-120, and there is the kit for the same price, but covers your forearms (bazubands), legs (cuisse and cops), neck (gorget), head (helm), kidneys, and the rest for random body protection, and it fits you and you walk out on the field knowing you made it. Or there is the Wisby COP kits people sell for your body. Either way, DV is pretty overpriced for what they offer (bad fitting plastic armour). If you really decide to go with plastic, the price of all that in sheet form is about 1/5 (from what people have posted).

Edited: Dont really mean to rant, just would hate to see you waste money and time on this.

JoeMick · Post by **JoeMick** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:51 pm

Welcome to the archive. Do a search on Dark Victory, and you will get the various opinions. I beleive you can do much nicer for a bit cheaper and some elbow grease.

If you do go the Dark Victory route, please please please cover it up. It looks like ass.

audax · Post by **audax** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:02 pm

Yeah, that DV stuff is straight hideous. If you must do plastic, check out Alchemy Armory, much nicer looking stuff and better made as well. Personally I don't have huge issues with plastic, although I prefer it to be covered in leather or nice cloth. Like has been said previously, you can get a hide and make your own out of leather, while buying a few of the more complex pieces like helm and gaunts. I think DV has thier hearts in the right place, but the stuff is just ugly and unpredictable in its durability.

Also do a search here on the archive for getting armored up cheaply. There is a good thread about it started by Duke Alaric.

I wanted to add that you might want to think about what culture and persona you wish to portray so as to avoid a Franken-harness. Like a Pembridge helm with Gothic plate and a Viking round shield. It's okay to take a little time, get a coherent impression and work on the pell. In the long run, you'll be happier.

Regards,

audax

Odawara Taro Yoshinobu · Mon May 29, 2006 11:16 pm

One Word:
Stonekeep

I used to work there, and when a former S.O. of mine wanted to fight, I took her there.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:20 pm

Wanted to add, I am not suggesting against Stonekeep Helms, just Ashcraft Baker. Started to reread my thread, and wasnt sure I was clear enough.

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:42 am

Cool, got a few more reply's than I expected, I figure if I went with plastic I was going to have to cover it. I was told that a Full Hide of 15oz. leather was close to $150, plus rivets and that would basically give me a chest piece, and maybe some leggings. I was going by what I was told by some other fighters. I am a tall and skinny guy 165 pounds and about 6 foot 2. I meet a few people who also prefer plastic for fighting in the summer time so they don't over heat and last a bit longer then most leather and mail/plate fighters. And they mention the low maintains on the plastic; don't have to worry about it rotting, rusting, mildew, or anything else that might happen. Thanks for the responses.

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:47 am

I ordered a helm from Sir Thomas and I currently already own a gorget which I bought off EBay for $24. And the loaner armor is just becoming painful for move around in and fight. "Cough" bad design of a coat of plates if what I am told, with one full a arm, and leggings is basically my loaner gear.

william · Post by **william** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:39 am

Hi!

a few hints:

- The search engine is your friend. Just try "beginner armour" and similar catch phrases. That should provide a good deal of advice - on sports armour, affordable "traditional" armouries, and the things you can do by yourself to be nice to your budget.

- Do your reading. Try to get a hold on "Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight", the various Osprey volumes and similar books - maybe somebody in your area has a copy and is willing to let you have a look at it. Just get a general overview of development of armour and weapons in medieval times. Then pick your favourite and go for it - just do as Audax said and try to be consistent.

- Trust your ancestors. From linen shirts and coifs to padded garments and tied-on armour pieces - a lot of those concepts work (much) better than modern substitutes and are not that hard to do. So maybe it might be a good thing to implement them right away.

- Download. Not only the SCA rules, but also Master Paul de Gorey's book on basic armouring which is available from House Brighthelm. Even if you decide to purchase the majority of your kit reading it will give you a good idea on how things (are supposed to) work.

Good luck!

William

Bran MacNiell · Post by **Bran MacNiell** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:36 am

[quote="Dredge"] I meet a few people who also prefer plastic for fighting in the summer time so they don't over heat and last a bit longer then most leather and mail/plate fighters. And they mention the low maintains on the plastic; don't have to worry about it rotting, rusting, mildew, or anything else that might happen. [quote]

Dredge, one thing to keep in mind is that plastic is an insulater. It is sometimes lighter than metal, but it helps hold that heat in rather than radiate it away from you.

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:12 am

Dredge,

Where are you?

Please PM me with your answer.

Mord.

Cunian · Post by **Cunian** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:05 am

Dredge -

Cops are pretty cheap, and are the only part of DV armor you can't easily do yourself without a lot of equipment or space. A coat of plates that does fit you is a pretty good first project. You can use plastic for the plates, or aluminum - it should be possible to obtain very cheaply. Padded cuisses, (the fabric legging things), will move with you and breathe better than DV stuff. You should be able to get a smaller piece of leather than a whole side to do various bits with.

I am thinking you go to the Sunday Pimmit practice? If so, I can bring another coat of plates for you to try on, and try to help generally. Wherever you are, if you talk to people at practice about your thoughts and plans, they may well be able to help further with patterns and suggestions for where to get materials.

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:37 am

The really big issue is I am not sure if I am working this sunday, I wont know till friday afternoon, I will be at thursday pratice though.

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:39 am

Well a design I saw and kinda liked was made out of ABS plastic with holes to allow breathing, he didn't have much padding on and used lacross pad and that was his chest armor.

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:49 am

Now that i think about it, other than google, ebay, and amazion what other sites would be good for searching up on armor and prices??? School and Work don't give much time to search the net, the only days I get a chance to look is the days I have Heavy Pratices which is thursday and maybe sunday depending if my work needs me.

Euric Germanicus · Post by **Euric Germanicus** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:20 pm

Just some links I have saved. Hope they help. Welcome to the SCA. Hope your experience with it brings you amazing things, as it has me.

http://www.ashcraftbaker.com Cheap good starter gear

www.windrosearmory.com -Great helms, some of the best

http://www.mandrakearmory.com - Shield blanks, hilts + pommels, axe/spear heads

http://www.ironmongerarmory.com - Helms, baskets

http://clang.adkinssoftware.com - Good helms

http://www.whitemountainarmoury.com Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Great helms, steel lamella plates

www.armourarchive.org -Check the forums for good deals

http://www.plasticlamellar.com -Makes great armor, note that the Auk may need to be padded

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:06 pm

Thank you for the links

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:23 pm

depends on your size but I have 15 oz hardened segmented (wrap) leather breatplates for sale for 100.00 each one brown and one black. Also several 14 G helms. none bargrill though. I sell them to guys who fight steel. The ywork just as well for SCA but no bargrills. Also have maille, and etc. Just give me a shout if your interested in pics and such.
theWarlord@cfl.rr.com or my little site at ChivalryFirst.com

Corby de la Flamme · Post by **Corby de la Flamme** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:26 pm

Hi Dredge,

I recall you from Sapphire, so I think I know what size stuff you need. (Apologies for saying "Nice website" when you introduced yourself. I thought you said Matthew Drudge.)

I'll be at the Ponte Alto practice week after this. I have the following stuff for sale, acting for friends who are moving and getting rid of stuff:

Steel greaves, cuisses, (but no knees) and elbows that would fit you. They're also probably older than you are

If you, like all right thinking folk, would like to portray a 12th-13th century norman warrior, I have a well worn aketon that I'll happily donate and should provide full body, hip, shoulder and upper arm protection. But it needs some TLC, since I wore it for about 5 years.

Pendry · Post by **Pendry** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:57 pm

Firstly , allow me to say 'HeJ', to you all, and next i would like to answer the query about where to get armour for a reasonable price, well, possibly anyway. Check these guys out, they're in the Czech Republic:
www.bestarmour.com
Hope you find what you're looking for!
Regards...
Pendry

audax · Post by **audax** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:31 pm

Dredge,

Bear in mind mail is full of holes that let the breeze blow through, especially if you wear linen. Check the thread for mail worn for SCA combat.

Welcome to the madness.

Regards,

audax

bogey2230 · Post by **bogey2230** » Tue May 30, 2006 4:39 pm

Dredge,
I am sure people have told you this already, but ask questions during fighter practice. I am positive someone is there or knows someone in the area that has tools with which you can use to build your own as well as patterns. When I began, I was fortunate enough to have a knight help me build mine. I bought the material but used his garage for a few weeks to build armor ( my fortune smile upon thee, Sir Jochen von Balduinseck) I was antsy during the whole process while I made armor as we didnt have any loner gear at the time. Just be patience and you will be in armor soon enough....

Lord Calador

..that feeling you feel during fighter practice, it never goes away... :lol:

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:33 am

Thank you all for your input this will make things a littile easyier for me to locate some gear and to read up on what kind of gear would work for me. Once again thank you all

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:05 am

You can make a 7 piece transitional breastplate out of Plastic, or Leather, Or Aluminium in about a weekend....For alot less than $230...say bout $30-40 bucks with plastic or aluminium....or bout $75 in leather...Then you can use the remainder of the original $230 to buy helm, gorget, etc....

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:04 am

Dredge wrote:I ordered a helm from Sir Thomas ...

If you can post a picture or link to a site with your helm, some of us would be glad to advise you on historically compatible gear for the rest of your armour. I think that you can armour effectively for nearly any time and place and social role but some require more hidden gear than others. Plastic and modern sporting equipment (lacross elbows, motocross pants) work great for hidden armour but other materials each have advantages as well. We can all suggest our favorite centuries and armour materials at random but until we know more about what you want to do it is hard for anyone to give you much help.

Dredge · Post by **Dredge** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:52 pm

Cunian has a helm very similar to what I will be getting, not sure if their is a web-site or not. Sir Thomas knows this armor from the west coast who makes helms for a reasonable price and the quity of the helm is suppose to be very good from what a few people tell me. The persona I would like is a Scottish Pirate. I don't know how many scottish pirates their was back then if any at all. I would perfer armor that will work great for the summer time and not make over heat. I would like to know where you pick up your supplies Angusm0628, cause the cheapest place I have found to get leather would cost me $150 plus and the aluminium sheet from what I have seen runs me clost to $100 or so. And I don't know where to pick up any plastic that would work as well.

BjÃ¸rn · Post by **BjÃ¸rn** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:09 pm

Sale ends today at Tandy Leather. Here is the link to the leather. $69.99 for 22-24 sq. ft of 14-15 oz leather. Very good bargain and more than enough to build an entire suit of armour if you measure twice and cut once.

http://www.tandyleather.com/prodinfo.as ... =4&mitem=4

Bjorn

BjÃ¸rn · Post by **BjÃ¸rn** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:11 pm

I forgot to add that they had this sale last month and it was supposed to end at the end of April, but they continued the sale. It might still be going on next month, but there is no guarantee.

Bjorn

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:21 pm

macrgra wrote:Sale ends today at Tandy Leather. Here is the link to the leather. $69.99 for 22-24 sq. ft of 14-15 oz leather. Very good bargain and more than enough to build an entire suit of armour if you measure twice and cut once.

http://www.tandyleather.com/prodinfo.as ... =4&mitem=4

Dredge

This is a good deal, I made my first leg (including shin protection) and arm armor out of a hide that size. http://home.armourarchive.org/members/f ... nArmor.jpg

Dan from house of the wolf has put up some great posts here about hardening the leather. Adding splints is not hard to do either. After that all you need are knee and elbow cops which you can get from Cet aka Dave Rylak for real cheap.

If I get the tools I want soon I could help you make a coat of plates for body armor.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:29 pm

Dredge, SERIOUSLY, camp out on James B's front stoop and do not leave until he helps you out (sorry, bro :mrgreen:

). He is one of the best folks I know for getting you the most bang for your buck in armour terms. He can give you the knowledge to make you look good without breaking your bank.

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Wed May 31, 2006 8:04 pm

Dredge wrote: I would like to know where you pick up your supplies Angusm0628, cause the cheapest place I have found to get leather would cost me $150 plus and the aluminium sheet from what I have seen runs me clost to $100 or so. And I don't know where to pick up any plastic that would work as well.

I can get 55 gallon plastic drums for $5 a piece.. The leather I get from an Amish Harness shop near my home and I get a break from them.. As to the aluminium..I go to the borough warehouse and ask for the old streeet signs that I then cut up and polish...The signs are free for my asking.

New fighter looking for good but cheap armor!

New fighter looking for good but cheap armor!

cops

Cheap but good armour