Durattan

For those of us who wish to talk about the many styles and facets of recreating Medieval armed combat.
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raito
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Durattan

Post by raito »

Here's a message I sent to Northshield's KEM (who I occasionally exchange messages with, so it's not like sending him cool stuff is anything new).

The product I ordered was a pair of 36X1.25" sticks, which coincidentally are the same size as my swords when they are rattan blanks.

As you can see, I appear to disagree with Count Robin, who says that Durattan is stiffer than rattan.

I think I cover most of Sir Justus' questions below:

"Can I carve a grip on it like rattan?" I sure think so.
"Will it make my hand numb after a few shots?" It didn't do so for mine.
"Is it stiffer than a brand new piece of rattan?" Not my rattan.
"Does it feel like rattan when it hits you?" (getting hit by rattan is a subject I consider myself an expert on) Haven't tried that yet, as I've only had the stuff a couple days.
"Finally, can I break it, and what happens when it breaks?" That'll be the last test I do.

I will say that I ordered the stuff mid-week, and it was here by Friday, which is good.


But I wonder at this (bold is mine)
Can I fight Real Contact Stickfighting events with these sticks?

Because of its strength, Durattanâ„¢ most likely will not be approved for fighting events. While bone breakage is possible with rattan training sticks, bone is more dense than rattan. This yields a low percentage of breakage. Durattanâ„¢ however is more dense and has a greater possibility of breaking bone. We ask that everyone uses Durattan for what it is intended; stick on stick training.


The last I knew, density is expressed in weight per unit volume, so if it were denser, it would weigh more. It doesn't seem to weigh more to me. THen again, it's likely that he's an FMA guy, not a materials guy.

Because I needed a couple new pell sticks, and intrigued by the Durattan
discussion on AA, I went and got myself a pair. Kinda pricy in comparison to
rattan. I haven't hit anything yet, so all this is quite preliminary.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're some polyethylene variant -- they have
the same sort of sheen as UMHW, and have that rather greasy feel. As
shipped, I wouldn't want to use them much, as they're quite slippery. They
don't seem to weigh more than moderately heavy, skin-on rattan, though when
swinging them, they feel ponderous for some reason (then again, I may be
compensating for the slipperiness with my grip, and gripping too tightly).
Surprisingly, they are more flexible than my rattan (I had a new untaped
sword lying around, and the dimensions are the same). The 'slap-test'
(hitting the weapon into my palm with moderate force) doesn't seem to sting
more or less than rattan. There was some apprehension about being able to
shave them down in the handle area. Looking at the ends, I see that they're
saw-cut, and chamfered using apparently abrasive methods.

This sure won't change the world yet, but it's good enough to go on to keep
experimenting in the backyard. I'm particularly interested to see wear and
breakage. I don't think I'd use them without tape.

Oh, and I don't take their promotional video at face value. Most Filipini MA
guys bake the hell out of their sticks to lighten them up, which greatly
reduces their lifespan. My retainer Koha says that the head of his style
might go through 2-3 sets of sticks in a single match on a bad day.
[/b]
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Post by rob(in) »

at 36", i would agree that it wouldn't be a stiff as rattan. my samples are 28" (which i have to mail out to interested parties), and those are stiffer than rattan.

i bet the guys who use 42" swords, at 1.25", could hit around shields/flyfish with them.

my biggest concern is still the weight/density being less safe than rattan. but in the end that is mostly a control issue and something we deal with anyway.
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D. Sebastian
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Post by D. Sebastian »

Just idle speculation, ignoring the possibile effect on the body...


When rattan contacts a helm, the rattan breaks-down a bit, absorbing some energy. (Sometimes, not enough, which is why I have a few neet dents in my helm ;) )

If the durattan does not destroy itself a bit (like rattan) when connecting a helm, then won't that shorten the life of the helm? ...and if so, are we really saving money when we'll need to replace a helmet sooner than we would if using rattan?


Any basis to my concern?
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rob(in)
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Post by rob(in) »

D. Sebastian wrote:


Any basis to my concern?


sure. if you're using lighter helms, 16-14ga, then i could see it denting them more easily. South Jersey still using 10ga tops? :)

helms do seem to be getting heavier across the board. HRM Malcolm here just got a new helm that is 10ga stainless throughout.
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Post by Malachiuri »

Whats the coefficient of restitution( I think thats the phrase if I remember corectly) of standard rattan to Durattan?

If standard rattan imparts 60% of its energy in the target, and Duratan imparts 90% of its energy then you have an issue. This seemed to be the issue with the polycarb swords.
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Post by Cedric »

You consider a 14g helm to be light?
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Post by rob(in) »

Cedric wrote:You consider a 14g helm to be light?


i'm sure it's a regional thing, but we seem to be gearing toward a 12ga top and 14ga sides as an average. my next helm will be all 12ga.

14ga tops get creased pretty regularly at my local practice.
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Sean Powell
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Post by Sean Powell »

Possible testing method for Durattan and other rattan substitutes:

Hello all,
Usually I lurk on the armor construction board, you know learning to build the stuff we like to dent, but I happened to wander by while the thread for Durattan was at the top. Personally I don’t blow out my rattan every 2 months, maybe I should hit harder, but I am interested in a rattan substitute because it intrigues me as an engineer. Previously I devised a brief series of tests that I would conduct given a little more time and money then I presently have. I want to detail them here in the hopes that maybe someone has the opportunity to act upon them at a later date.
All tests are meant to get comparative values. Presently there is no baseline of what is and is not acceptable beyond comparison to existing material. In the medical device industry we refer to this as “Predicate Device Testingâ€Â
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Kevin
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Post by Kevin »

Cedric wrote:You consider a 14g helm to be light?


[img]http://thornbury.diaryland.com/images/yes.gif[/img]
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Rev. George
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Post by Rev. George »

[i]The ideal test would be to imbed both ends of a 12â€Â
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